Invstigation of an allegation

farmerboy

If you are the subject of an investigation, should you be told the allegation when you are asked for a statement of the events?


Apparently I am being alleged of doing something (not sure exactly what as I haven't been told) and was asked for a statement of what went off during the shift. I have responded with the only thing I can remember happening ( a bit of a row because the other person did something they shouldn't/weren't asked to do). They then carried on working with me for the rest of the shift with no issues or inklings that there was a problem. Nothing said to the supervisor either. On a shift 2 days later they have handed in their resignation and accused me of something stating that they don't want to work with me again.


Our handbook says we'll be given the nature of the complaint but doesn't say wether this will be at the investigation stage or disciplinary.

Comms69

Not necessarily. Obviously you’ve been given enough details to idenitify the event.

However unless you were the supervisor for this colleague it’s not your job to ‘row’.

You can make a comment, and if you have further concerns to pass the buck upwards.

Certainly if I had two employees rowing; both would be looking at disciplinaries. It’s not professional

farmerboy

Comms69 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Obviously you’ve been given enough details to idenitify the event.

However unless you were the supervisor for this colleague it’s not your job to ‘row’.

You can make a comment, and if you have further concerns to pass the buck upwards.

Certainly if I had two employees rowing; both would be looking at disciplinaries. It’s not professional

Thanks


Technically I am his supervisor as due to the job we are doing (not saying the actual industry) he can only work under the instruction of the next grade up i.e. me.


Also these 'rows' happen frequently in our industry, you just shrug them off and get on with it. I know that's not the done way for most but is very common place in our industry. Had this been any other employee it wouldn't have got this far

sangie595

"Unprofessional stuff happens in our industry/ workplace, so it's ok" is a poor excuse - clearly since the employer is taking it seriously, they think so too. You would be told the exact nature of an allegation and the evidence available before a disciplinary - the employer isn't required to tell you before that stage, and, in fact, there is merit in asking for your version without telling you exactly what had been said.

It doesn't matter whether another employee would have taken it this far. This employee feels so bad about having to work with you that they've quit their job. "Rows" are not an appropriate way to manage in a workplace. If you are "technically" supervising someone, you should "technically" do so in a way that does not involve rows with staff. Therein lies the route to an employment tribunal if you aren't more careful.

farmerboy

sangie595 wrote: »

"Unprofessional stuff happens in our industry/ workplace, so it's ok" is a poor excuse - clearly since the employer is taking it seriously, they think so too. You would be told the exact nature of an allegation and the evidence available before a disciplinary - the employer isn't required to tell you before that stage, and, in fact, there is merit in asking for your version without telling you exactly what had been said.

It doesn't matter whether another employee would have taken it this far. This employee feels so bad about having to work with you that they've quit their job. "Rows" are not an appropriate way to manage in a workplace. If you are "technically" supervising someone, you should "technically" do so in a way that does not involve rows with staff. Therein lies the route to an employment tribunal if you aren't more careful.

Thank you for the information.


I'm glad there are so many people out there who can keep their calm when some one puts you in a dangerous situation. Unfortunately I'm not one of them and lost my temper over it. I'm not justifying anything to any one, we work in a highly dangerous industry, one that is still very 'old school' in its training and work practices rightly or wrongly, but one that we feel because of the mutual respect keeps us all safe and alive

This employee feels so bad about having to work with you that they've quit their job

There's a lot more to it than just this incident, and none of the other stuff is anything to do with me. I'm just the excuse to draw a better severance package out of the company, as they see the writing is on the wall for them in the near future (lack of future work, and their lack of skills, having to spend more time away from home than before). They could have quite easily asked to have been moved to another team, just like they are doing while they work their notice out. Think you'll find that the employer is only taking it seriously as there could be another court case looming (the issue in question here is not in any of the court cases) for unfair employment terms.

Tigsteroonie

I was recently the subject of a disciplinary investigation. I could not be told what the actual allegation said, but was asked questions by the investigator that made it clear the whens, whats and wherefores (without stating the explicit concern).

In a way I understand why they do this. If you knew the exact details, you'd be in full denial mode and perhaps not give the clearest account of what happened.

Comms69

farmerboy wrote: »

Thank you for the information.


I'm glad there are so many people out there who can keep their calm when some one puts you in a dangerous situation. Unfortunately I'm not one of them and lost my temper over it. I'm not justifying anything to any one, we work in a highly dangerous industry, one that is still very 'old school' in its training and work practices rightly or wrongly, but one that we feel because of the mutual respect keeps us all safe and alive





There's a lot more to it than just this incident, and none of the other stuff is anything to do with me. I'm just the excuse to draw a better severance package out of the company, as they see the writing is on the wall for them in the near future (lack of future work, and their lack of skills, having to spend more time away from home than before). They could have quite easily asked to have been moved to another team, just like they are doing while they work their notice out. Think you'll find that the employer is only taking it seriously as there could be another court case looming (the issue in question here is not in any of the court cases) for unfair employment terms.

If he resigned there is no severance package.

As for you old school lack of policies etc. Consider that the military, which by its nature is more dangerous; has some of the most strict working conditions.

farmerboy

Comms69 wrote: »

If he resigned there is no severance package.

As for you old school lack of policies etc. Consider that the military, which by its nature is more dangerous; has some of the most strict working conditions.

Don't see the RSM's getting investigated when they shout at the soldiers though

Les79

farmerboy wrote: »

I'm glad there are so many people out there who can keep their calm when some one puts you in a dangerous situation. Unfortunately I'm not one of them and lost my temper over it.

The thing which I'm struggling to understand is why you didn't report such a "dangerous" issue to management, especially when it was dangerous enough to elicit an almost 'fight of flight' response from you.

Depending on how "dangerous" it was, the person in question could have been in line for a rightful gross misconduct sacking. Maybe you're happy with just shouting at them, but your colleagues may not be so appreciative (especially if your lack of reporting causes them to be put in danger in the future).

So needs a bit more explanation really. If you've let a "dangerous" employee continue working then you could be a shockingly bad line manager (or whatever vague seniority you are claiming). That in itself, and any potential reporting processes not adhered to, could warrant at least a warning for YOU.

Plus, it sounds like the colleague has put in a complaint about your conduct. They've got a point to be fair like, you did lose your rag and didn't report it (dangerous situation) to management. And you state that the colleague didn't have problems finishing their shift, but people do that! They'll work the shift and maybe a few more, but they'll be stewing on it for days! And, if cynical, may want to "take you down" with them.

So future lessons:

1. Don't lose your rag

2. Report dangerous behaviour to senior managers (or deal with it as per your company handbook if you are senior to them/in a position to do so).

Diamandis

You seem to not be accepting any responsibility that you've done something wrong. If you come into a disciplinary with that attitude it won't go well. I'd suggest apologising sincerely for the way you acted and trying to reassure your employer that it won't be repeated.

farmerboy

Les79 wrote: »

The thing which I'm struggling to understand is why you didn't report such a "dangerous" issue to management, especially when it was dangerous enough to elicit an almost 'fight of flight' response from you.

Depending on how "dangerous" it was, the person in question could have been in line for a rightful gross misconduct sacking. Maybe you're happy with just shouting at them, but your colleagues may not be so appreciative (especially if your lack of reporting causes them to be put in danger in the future).

So needs a bit more explanation really. If you've let a "dangerous" employee continue working then you could be a shockingly bad line manager (or whatever vague seniority you are claiming). That in itself, and any potential reporting processes not adhered to, could warrant at least a warning for YOU.

Plus, it sounds like the colleague has put in a complaint about your conduct. They've got a point to be fair like, you did lose your rag and didn't report it (dangerous situation) to management. And you state that the colleague didn't have problems finishing their shift, but people do that! They'll work the shift and maybe a few more, but they'll be stewing on it for days! And, if cynical, may want to "take you down" with them.

So future lessons:

1. Don't lose your rag

2. Report dangerous behaviour to senior managers (or deal with it as per your company handbook if you are senior to them/in a position to do so).

It wasn't reported because of our old school ways of doing the job. Rightly or wrongly in the modern culture, its just the way we were taught and the way we teach the trainees, and they learn from their mistakes. A lot of this was a language and communication problem, he didn't communicate that he was moving something before he did it, it was not asked for and not required. The dangerous situation could have injured me, but didn't, so I saw no reason to report anything. If we reported everything that was considered dangerous then we'd fast lose trainees. This is the way we all work in our company and industry, measures are in place prevent accidents and incidents, this was a case of someone not following them fully.



Basically in our industry you have the trainees, the experienced staff, then the supervisor, then the management. I'm one of the experienced staff, he is a trainee. The trainees are not allowed to work the job without being under the supervision of an experienced staff member.


As for lessons learnt, I've learned a few already, and most have been communicated back to management to try and remove the stresses put on the experienced staff. There's a whole lot of mitigating factors involved leading up to this issue, none of which can be put here, and I suppose in hindsight justify what happened in some peoples eyes.