Court Claim - UKPC / SCS LAW - DEFENCE PENDING IMMEDIATE SUBMISSION

namiku

Afternoon all,

I have followed this forum and it seems a lot more active than Pepipoo so have decided to copy my request for help here as well especially since I have lost two weeks due to a problem I had and couldn't deal with this court issue.

This is the thread on Pepipoo if anyone wants to look at the timeline of what we have done http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122262

Below is a description of what happened including all relevant details from the other thread:

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So some time ago around 1 AM the driver drove the keeper to hospital. Didn't think much about it at the time and just parked as close to the hospital on the main road.

There were some complications so the keeper had to be admitted to hospital. The driver went home around midday the next day and noticed there was a penalty on the windscreen.

After a few hours sleep the driver went back to the hospital and parked on the main road having forgotten about the penalty before. The driver came out late the same evening and saw another penalty on the windscreen. They were PPCs so we decided to ignore them.

During the time the keeper stayed in hospital we got about 6 in total. They sent chaser letters every few months and we just ignored them as per previous advice.

We've received a Claim Form (in keepers name) by the court from UKPC and SCS LAW and obviously cannot ignore this. No evidence has been given and it seems it will follow in 14 days as stated on the form. The form was sent to us on 17th August so we have till 21st September I beleive to enter a defence.

All of the PPC and the claim forms are in keepers name. The keeper was obviously not driving as they were in hospital.

Thanks for your repsonses. I made some edits to the post.

I am 99.9% sure they have not sent a letter before claim to be honest and we have not heard from them in the last 6 months for sure.

The claim has been acknowledged online and it has been stated we intend to defend all of the claim. No defence was entered. We are awaiting evidence from claimant which should arrive within 14 days as per what is stated on the form.

It was in fact a fault by the hospital staff that caused for the keeper to be admitted for longer than necessary so might be contacting PALS as well for this.

A request was sent to DVLA and they have sent a list back. Seemingly UKPC have requested details accordingly for X amount of times as there are charges.

We have been rummaging amongst old papers and found the original NtKs and also some letters sent from their debt recovery DRP. The pictures on the NtK seem very poor quality, the evidence which should be received within 14 days as per might be a bit better. We can probably find almost all the correspondence they have sent in regards to these PPCs as we would have dumped them in a box in the garage.

All sides of NtKs as per below:

1.0

1.1

2.0

2.1

3.0

3.1

4.0

4.1

5.0

5.1

A particulars of claim has been sent to us from SCS. I'm not sure if this is what constitutes evidence but apart from a few statements explaining the alleged contraventions there is no evidence and the outstanding sums on each PCN have been doubled to £120 without reason.

I remember at least two tickets on the windscreen on the first night on separate occassions. From their pictures of my car on the NtKs it would appear that only one of the five has evidence that there was a ticket on the windscreen so not sure whether we can claim that they have not sent the NtK within 14 days if no ticket was issued?

The NtK have all been received within the 29-56 days.

Here is the current signage:

And the below is old signage from the time of the original charges which is similar to the fourth sign just above:



According to google streetview the signs have been changed some time between May 2017 and Present

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Thanks for your time everyone.

Any help or pointing in the right direction is appreciated.

Thanks

Quentin

see #2 in the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum for all advice on court claims from receipt of the claim right through to the hearing

Redx

and then post your proposed draft defence below, for critique

KeithP

What is the Date of Issue on your Claim Form?

namiku

Thanks everyone. The date on the claim is 17th August, this has been inserted in the thread title as well.

We had a look at the Newbie FAQ beforehand and I got right down to start new thread button quite confused about what was relevant to our case that is why we asked for some advice on what we should be relying on.

This happened a couple of years ago and so our defence was going to be that the keeper was not the driver and provide proof of this in the form of hospital admittance however we were told that is no longer a defence.

A few things that we have gathered from advice is that we should try and get the claim thrown out. No evidence was provided from SCS so we should invite the court to strike it out or order the claimant to provide better particulars. Can we ask the court JUST to throw it out or order better particulars and then draft the defence based on the actual evidence that they will be relying in court on as we do not see how to defend something unknown...

Also to our understanding the £120 they claim cannot be asked of the keeper but only the driver so at best they can only ask for £60.

From Pepipoo we have been advise that some points to raise would be:

Legal capacity to bring the claim
Failure to follow POFA
Failure to follow Govt instructions on hospital parking
Inadequate signs
Costs not incurred
Even if incurred are none of your concern
Beavis doesn't apply

However apart from the last one we can't really get our head around the others. Also not sure what the requirements are for NtK and signage and that's why we posted them up and asked for some help identifying issues.

Many thanks

Quentin

namiku wrote: »

Thanks everyone. The date on the claim is 17th August, this has been inserted in the thread title as well.

Your post and thread title are contradictory


The date of the claim cannot be the same date you received the claim


What is the date of issue of the claim?

namiku

Quentin wrote: »

Your post and thread title are contradictory


The date of the claim cannot be the same date you received the claim


What is the date of issue of the claim?

Apologies for the confusion, the date of the claim form is 17th, received 18th.

KeithP

With a Claim Form Issue Date of 17th August you needed to have either done the Acknowledgement of Service or filed a Defence by Wednesday 5th September 2018.

As you have clearly not yet filed a Defence, can you please confirm that you did do the Acknowledgement of Service by that date.

If you have not done the AoS, it's best you do it now... immediately... as soon as you read this post.

If it hasn't happened already, you run a very real risk of the Claimant applying for a Default Judgment against you.

Coupon-mad

We are awaiting evidence from claimant which should arrive within 14 days as per what is stated on the form.

No you are not waiting for anything, you have got the POC which is what that meant:

A particulars of claim has been sent to us from SCS. I'm not sure if this is what constitutes evidence but apart from a few statements explaining the alleged contraventions there is no evidence and the outstanding sums on each PCN have been doubled to £120 without reason.

They always add a made up sixty quid to all PCNs, and pretend they spent it on 'debt collection firms' even though those firms, like DRP, send their scam letters free of charge as they offer a no-win-no-fee service to PPCs! So the £60 is not recoverable but they try anyway as they know some people are stupid, and lots are scared...and they will get the full whack paid in most cases.

Awful scam, isn't it?

This happened a couple of years ago and so our defence was going to be that the keeper was not the driver and provide proof of this in the form of hospital admittance.

No you won't rely on that alone (BTW the law changed in 2012 on 'registered keeper liability' so you should NEVER have ignored the PCNs - if you had come here at the time, the keeper could have won them all easily at POPLA at the time!).

However, having said that the D can't rely on ''I wasn't the driver'' as a silver bullet (because it isn't), the defence does need to admit he was the registered keeper, but deny he was the driver, and assert that he was in hospital on all the material dates, and put the Claimant to strict proof of full POFA Schedule 4 compliance.

however we were told that is no longer a defence

Yes and no. UKPC have sent POFA-compliant NTK letters at the right time with the right words, so chances are they can hold the rk liable anyway...except the 2012 law also requires 'adequate notice' of the parking charge and that £60 is minuscule! Illegible, and could be argued not to be capable of forming a contract.

not sure whether we can claim that they have not sent the NtK within 14 days if no ticket was issued?

No, you can't, because these were ALL windscreen PCNs, whether the driver saw them or not. So UKPC could only issue NTKs between day 29 and day 56, and they did that right.

I find it odd that two NTKs are for the same date (4.1.18) one saying 'no permit' and one saying ' no pay and display'). was that two visits at different times, once in a permit area and once in a P&D area?

Why did the driver never purchase a P&D Ticket then?

Were they ever in a well-signed 'permit area' & what do they mean, a staff area?

Was the car ever parked in a staff area?

Was the car parked on hatched or Double Yellow lines, or that 'no parking' area?

And please reassure us re this vital question!

As you have clearly not yet filed a Defence, can you please confirm that you did do the Acknowledgement of Service by that date.

If you have not done the AoS, it's best you do it now... immediately... as soon as you read this post.

If it hasn't happened already, you run a very real risk of the Claimant applying for a Default Judgment against you.

namiku

Good morning and thank you for your responses.

The claim has been acknowledged few days after the court forms were received and no defence was entered. I have made this in bold on the original post as it might not seem obvious.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No, you can't, because these were ALL windscreen PCNs, whether the driver saw them or not. So UKPC could only issue NTKs between day 29 and day 56, and they did that right.

From the pictures on the NtK only 1/5 has the PCN on the windscreen. The rest do not however we do not have all the PCN pictures.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I find it odd that two NTKs are for the same date (4.1.18) one saying 'no permit' and one saying ' no pay and display'). was that two visits at different times, once in a permit area and once in a P&D area?

Yes some visits were on the same day. It would have been wherever space was found unfortunately. It was a stressful time.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Why did the driver never purchase a P&D Ticket then?

The first two PCN were not even read due to what was going on at the time. We parked on a main road all of the time and even though some of the PCN are issued during the day the car was always parked at evening times.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Were they ever in a well-signed 'permit area' & what do they mean, a staff area?

None of the signs are actually lit. We parked always on the main road almost exclusively at night. There's no massive lit sign saying you're entering a P&D zone although I will double check this tonight and maybe take a video as well.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Was the car ever parked in a staff area?

The honest answer is we're not sure but it probably was if there is one such area on the main road. We never entered any parking area separated by arm barriers.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Was the car parked on hatched or Double Yellow lines, or that 'no parking' area?

Again not sure and as they have not mentioned this I would assume not. It was a very stressful time with the keeper being admitted to hospital and due to distress no attention whatsoever was paid to parking.

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So thinking about our defence can we initially request for the court to strike the action out or order better particulars before we form this so we know what they are relying on and shoot this down rather than shooting in the dark?

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 17th August, and having done the AoS in a timely manner (sorry, missed that in your opening post), you have until 4pm on Wednesday 19th September 2018 to file your Defence.

Still a whole week, but please don't leave it until the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print your Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for the Directions Questionnaire and come back here.