Cel ticket

KeithP

You para 5. doesn't look suitable to me.

Remember, you are writing to the court.
E.g. the court will not 'fail to evidence' anything.

Please do not be in such a rush. You have two weeks to file your Defence.

A lot of regular posters on here have better things to do at a weekend that read Defences.

Take you time and get it right.

Coupon-mad

UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD (Claimant)

Really? Despite your thread until now, telling us this is CEL?

ShirlsP

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Really? Despite your thread until now, telling us this is CEL?

Apologies that was left in error

ShirlsP

Hello

I have added further to my defence. Which is mainly around;

1. The signage only states "any guests of the Holiday Inn" does not mention any other businesses on the land.
2. No grace period provided on the signage and my overstay falls within the BPA CoP guidelines.

Along with the defence below I will also be providing

1. Pictures of the signage
2. Dashcam footage when entering the land/car park
3. Copy of the Beavis case
4. Copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA
5. Copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability' if defending as keeper.
6. Copy of BPA Code of practice where it supports my case

Do I need to include the Beavis case in my defence or is the image sufficient?

I would be really grateful for some feedback on this - many thanks.



IN THE COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx
BETWEEN:
(Claimant)
-and-
xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)
________________________________________
DEFENCE
________________________________________

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX XXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was parked on the material date in a bay usable by patrons of The Harvester.

3. It is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that any guest of the Holiday Inn Staying longer than 3 hours must register for a permit inside the hotel. Giving no instructions for patrons visiting The Harvester located on the same site, using the same car parking facilities. The Defendant was a patron of the Harvester Restaurant at the time the alleged offence occurred.

4. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

5. If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the British Parking Association’s official Code of Practice “13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go.” and “13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.” For the avoidance of doubt, the second 'grace' period of at least ten minutes (not a maximum, but a minimum) is in addition to the separate, first grace/observation period that must be allowed for the time taken to arrive, find a parking bay, lock the car, and go over to any machine and/or observe the signage terms, before paying for or obtaining a permit. Kelvin Reynolds of the BPA says there is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this: “An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park. The Claimant has failed to uphold the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) as the total time of 17 minutes recorded from passing the ANPR falls within this grace period.

6. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation. Even if the Claimant is able to produce such a landowner contract, it is claimed that there can be no legitimate interest arguable by the Claimant in this case. When - all too often at this location – Civil Enforcement ltd. unfairly harvest the data of a registered keeper to charge a genuine patron, any commercial justification in the form of landowner support for such unfair ticketing is de facto absent.

7. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £82, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

8. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.
Name
Signature
Date

KeithP

e10sp wrote: »

Along with the defence below I will also be providing

1. Pictures of the signage
2. Dashcam footage when entering the land/car park
3. Copy of the Beavis case
4. Copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA
5. Copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability' if defending as keeper.
6. Copy of BPA Code of practice where it supports my case

Do I need to include the Beavis case in my defence or is the image sufficient?

Evidence comes later - at Witness Statement stage.

Nothing gets sent with a Defence, which is purely narrative.

refresh your memory by re-reading post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

Coupon-mad

Remove your number plate from the above post; it's too easy to identify you!

Defence looks OK to me, but no sending evidence with it, as the NEWBIES thread already tells you (in the section about: 'know what happens when, defence is not your only job') and as KeithP has pointed out.

Quentin

You need to remove reference to your reg number from ALL posts you have put it into!

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you if they can identify you!

ShirlsP

Hello

After submitting the claim via email, is it good practice to also send via post with the completed form?

Thanks

KeithP

e10sp wrote: »

Hello

After submitting the claim via email, is it good practice to also send via post with the completed form?

Thanks

No need to bother with that. Just check on MCOL that your Defence has been accepted.

ShirlsP

Hi all


I now have a court date and the fee was paid. I need to submit my defence in the next couple days.


I have read throught the sticky post again but am a little confused as I am not sure how the defence I had already submitted differs.


Is there one I can reference for info? not sure what else I can add apart from exhibits.


Thanks for your help.