Advice for sister buying house with elderly mother

Beegarden

My widowed mother, aged 88, lives independently in the same town as my sister and her husband. The latter have decided that they would like to move south to Brighton to be near one of their children and grandchlildren. As they are near by should Mum need help/advice they have suggested that Mum sells us too and buys a third share in their house with them. Despite the fact that this will mean my brother and myself having a much longer distance to travel to see her, my Mum has naturally been seduced into looking forward to being with her grandchildren and being near the sea and not necessarily thought about whether Brighton, particularly with its lack of parking, would be suitable for her (she can't walk very far and buses don't always go where you want them to). I was hoping that things would not progress but my sister's house now has a completion date and things are moving fast.


My mother will be using the proceeds of her current house as her share (about £600K). We three siblings are joint beneficiaries in my parents' will and they have always been openly fair to us. My brother in law buys, renovates and sells houses so he is quite savvy in that respect and always 'wears his business head.' I want as little ill feeling to emerge in the future so I was looking for advice to help set it up now. Am I right in thinking that the house should be bought as 'tenants in common' with a third share stipulated? Would my mother have to write another will or could she ad a codicil to the effect that my sister and her husband buy out my brother and myself within a certain timeframe? Lastly, is there a 'best way' to do things regarding Inheritance Tax?


My brother and I are both executors but all three now have Power of Attorneys in both Finance and Welfare.


I'd be very grateful for any advice, please, so that I can talk with confidence rather than be beaten down my brother in law's knowledge.

Yorkshireman99

Beegarden wrote: »

My widowed mother, aged 88, lives independently in the same town as my sister and her husband. The latter have decided that they would like to move south to Brighton to be near one of their children and grandchlildren. As they are near by should Mum need help/advice they have suggested that Mum sells us too and buys a third share in their house with them. Despite the fact that this will mean my brother and myself having a much longer distance to travel to see her, my Mum has naturally been seduced into looking forward to being with her grandchildren and being near the sea and not necessarily thought about whether Brighton, particularly with its lack of parking, would be suitable for her (she can't walk very far and buses don't always go where you want them to). I was hoping that things would not progress but my sister's house now has a completion date and things are moving fast.


My mother will be using the proceeds of her current house as her share (about £600K). We three siblings are joint beneficiaries in my parents' will and they have always been openly fair to us. My brother in law buys, renovates and sells houses so he is quite savvy in that respect and always 'wears his business head.' I want as little ill feeling to emerge in the future so I was looking for advice to help set it up now. Am I right in thinking that the house should be bought as 'tenants in common' with a third share stipulated? Would my mother have to write another will or could she ad a codicil to the effect that my sister and her husband buy out my brother and myself within a certain timeframe? Lastly, is there a 'best way' to do things regarding Inheritance Tax?


My brother and I are both executors but all three now have Power of Attorneys in both Finance and Welfare.


I'd be very grateful for any advice, please, so that I can talk with confidence rather than be beaten down my brother in law's knowledge.

Personally it sounds like a recipe for disaster. There are so many opportunities for things to go wrong. All parties need independent legal advice before proceeding.

Marcon

Beegarden wrote: »

I'd be very grateful for any advice, please, so that I can talk with confidence rather than be beaten down my brother in law's knowledge.

Given the complexity of the situation (not least in terms of family dynamics) and the sums of money involved, get proper professional advice (in this case from a solicitor who is a STEP member).

Beegarden

Thank you to Marcon and Yorkshireman99 for your honest responses. I guessed that would be the response but hoped it might be easier.

troubleinparadise

Will the new property provide a private “wing” for your mother; will her area be able to adapt to her needs as she ages; is your sister prepared as the only local child to provide the company and help your mother might need on an increasing basis, or be prepared for the intrusion of visiting care givers?

What money will Mum be left with to pay for her share of the bills, or her care, whether at home or in a residential care home?

How would her funds be released if they are needed for expensive care if they are tied-up in the co-owned house?

And how do your sister and BIL propose to release those funds come the dreaded day the Mum’s Will comes into play?

I suspect you’ve already considered these issues, and I’ve only touched on some of the potential problems, but they are being swept aside under your Mother’s understandable desire for living in a family situation again, plus BIL’s ambitious plans involving the additional £600k buying power.

Legal advice for all involved with no sugar coating is definitely needed to ensure everyone has their eyes open to the implications of any plans.

AnotherJoe

Trouble in paradise said everything i was thinking of and more. Wills, the money when she dies, money for care, etc.



To add to that, why isnt your mum looking at a flat possibly in a complex, thats better suited to her needs especially as she ages? One level, wet room, wide doors,potentially on premise help, more people around her for companionship than just one set of relatives (you dont say how old the kids are but once they reach early teens they will be substantially tied up with homework after school classes sports etc and likely to be spending much less time with her than she or their parents envisages.
The only objection you raise thats strikes me as invalid* is "lack of parking in Brighton". Why is she driving? Get rid of the car and use taxis. At 88 thats only a matter of time anyway, they will be more convenient, door to door, and most likely unless she is out and about driving long distance every day (which is especially unlikely once she's moved away from her "home" area and friends), substantially cheaper and can most likely be wholly funded by getting rid of her current car and all its costs.



* aside the wholly selfish "despite the fact i have to drive longer to see" her comment

Beegarden

Thank you 'troubleinparadise.' You have made it clear that it is not just my brother and me worrying about nothing. My sister was looking at a three storey house, thinking to have the ground floor for Mum, with a separate entrance. At present, Mum is 'comfortable', able to cover any general outgoings without dipping into savings. Being of Scottish descent, she is not keen on spending more than she has to. ) It's good to have you and previous responders confirm my worries that this has been pushed forward without my brother and me, and of course Mum, being properly involved. (Mum babysat their dog while they went to look at the house). My brother has arranged for a Skype call between us on Monday and I hope that your comments will bring it all to a head. Many thanks for your trouble.

Beegarden

Thank you Another Joe for all of your comments.
I have often mentioned to my Mum about taxis (she could afford it) but she likes to be independent and is quite insistent on driving. Regarding a flat of her own, she has been told that prices in Brighton are even more than Maidenhead and that it would be better all round for her to join forces. (I have taken it on trust that my brother in law has looked at her best interests, particularly as he buys and sells houses and does the odd repair to her house). As we are at best, three hours and worst five hours away, (depending on the M25) we don't see Mum as often as my sister does and things are suggested, agreed to between visits. When we visit my Mum, we make the most of our time together, going out for lunch, visiting gardens etc and I don't feel comfortable trying to break any bond between her and my sister. We too are in our late 60s so the M25 is not best journey, with all due respect.


Her grandchildren in Brighton are currently both under five, with one on the way.


I do take on board your comments and will chat with my brother again before our Skype. Many thanks for your time.

AnotherJoe

Beegarden wrote: »

Thank you Another Joe for all of your comments.
I have often mentioned to my Mum about taxis (she could afford it) but she likes to be independent and is quite insistent on driving.

My parents were like that too. Maybe she'll change her mind once she encounters Brighton traffic and parking (especially in summer). We forced my dad to pack in driving when it became erratic (first signs of alzheimers in his case) .

Realistically, wheres your mum going to be driving anyway? That could be reviewed after a year or two "so mum it seems you actually drove your car 11 times last year. You could have saved two grand by just using taxis"



Regarding a flat of her own, she has been told that prices in Brighton are even more than Maidenhead and that it would be better all round for her to join forces.


Better in what respect? Id have thought £600k would buy more than a decent retirement flat in Brighton ! See whats available.



(BTW Bright is ni(I have taken it on trust that my brother in law has looked at her best interests, particularly as he buys and sells houses and does the odd repair to her house). As we are at best, three hours and worst five hours away, (depending on the M25) we don't see Mum as often as my sister does and things are suggested, agreed to between visits. When we visit my Mum, we make the most of our time together, going out for lunch, visiting gardens etc and I don't feel comfortable trying to break any bond between her and my sister. We too are in our late 60s so the M25 is not best journey, with all due respect.
My point was, your mum should be where whats best for her all the time which may or may not be Brighton but complaining because its less convenient for you to visit once in a while seems churlish. Take a train and stay down a bit longer maybe. I've got friends who live 300 miles away. When i see them i train it.


Her grandchildren in Brighton are currently both under five, with one on the way.

OK well then i can see the attraction. I've know someone who's in that position, near to grandkids, but ten years later on, and now she sees the kids much less frequently now they are entering teens. But realistically for your mother this seems to be a great time to be near them.


I do take on board your comments and will chat with my brother again before our Skype. Many thanks for your time.

Good luck.

-taff

Try posting on the mortgages board, you'll get more idea of the pitfalls.

Mojisola

-taff wrote: »

Try posting on the mortgages board, you'll get more idea of the pitfalls.

While the financial side will also have its pitfalls, many of the problems resulting from this plan with be to do with relationships.

I have known one case where this worked really well but the parent had a self-contained section of the property and only had one child so there were no inheritance issues.

The other people I know who have shared finances and moved in with family have all regretted it and it's made for some very unhappy last years.