My landlord is refusing to replace a 22 year old washing machine

oliviaka

macman wrote: »

No deposit protection often means no gas safety certificate or EPC. OP, did you receive them? Along with no deposit protection, this gives you considerable bargaining power. Non-supply of a GSC is a serious criminal offence.
Can you confirm that both flats are completely self contained units-no shared facilities?

we didn't receive any official certificates when moving into the property, yes we are both completely self contained.

[Deleted User]

You may be right. Does your council have a registration scheme for Landlords? Its also suspect that she doesn't pay the taxes she should on rental income.

However if she is being this unpleasant generally, I suspect you will have problems getting a reference from her for your next property if you do manage to get together the money for a deposit on a new place etc.

Do you pay council tax? If not, what does it say in the TA about council tax? If the council don't know its two properties, someone might not be paying the council tax they should. However, this could affect you as well (as in you could get a large bill yourself).

But the things she is/isn't doing (protecting deposit, tax problems, possible registration problems, gas safety certification) could be used to encourage her to give back the deposit, give a good reference and let you move out without any problems as would be far less trouble for her to do this. But I would have a nice strong lad/lassy who stays calm with you when you discuss this. The LL might behave herself then. I guess you could tell her that after the unpleasantness x days ago, and lack of working washing machine you need to move out and if you had to explain the situation to the council because you need help with the deposit, it could get very messy for everyone. If she returns your deposit, and gives a good reference, no problems for anyone. Tell her you are very worried about the council tax situation as well. That's enough.

Once moved out, you can report the situation to whoever you please.

ariarnia

I would have thought - if you can confirmation in writing from either the agent or landlord that the landlord does not consider the washing machine to be their appliance (therefore theirs to repair/replace), you can simply replace the washing machine and consider it your property to take or sell at the end of your tenancy as you choose.

If the landlord is arguing that the washing machine is their appliance but that you have caused it to break through misuse (rather than a natural end of life) then I would suggest the landlord would be required to get an independent report from a plumber (at their expense) confirming it has broken through misuse and a quote for repair/replacement as like for like.

At that point the rules around betterment should come into force and you should be expected to pay whatever percentage would relate to the expected remaining life of the machine according to the expert's report.

If you have a way of talking to your landlord which doesn't involve being berated on your doorstep, you might want to share this article https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/washing-machines-faulty-broken-lifespan-lifetime-warranty-guarantee/

The longest expected lifespan given for a washing machine was 20 years (with the majority being 6-8) meaning your machine is 2 years over the maximum expected life of a Miele machine. You could consider contacting the manufacturer of your current machine and asking them what the expected life of one of their machines with reasonable use would be (and if the response if favourable to your argument, forward this to the landlord/agent).

Separately, I would suggest you need to write to your landlord (and cc your agent) saying you found their behaviour unacceptable and withdraw their right to turn up unannounced at your property. Note that you consider any repeat of this behaviour to be harassment and a breach of your right to quiet enjoyment of your home.

I would also (personally) contact the council and check your residence has been registered as a separate property as I'm not clear on if you are paying your own council tax and you can be liable even after your tenancy if you've failed to pay. You could also drop a note to HMRC with the landlords details and details of your rent to make sure she's not putting it through her business books to avoid tax...

marliepanda

ariarnia wrote: »

I would have thought - if you can confirmation in writing from either the agent or landlord that the landlord does not consider the washing machine to be their appliance (therefore theirs to repair/replace), you can simply replace the washing machine and consider it your property to take or sell at the end of your tenancy as you choose.

If the landlord is arguing that the washing machine is their appliance but that you have caused it to break through misuse (rather than a natural end of life) then I would suggest the landlord would be required to get an independent report from a plumber

The landlord does not have to fix it. The landlord does not have to prove the OP broke it.

Them saying they’re not going to fix it does not mean it magically becomes the property of the OP.

You give some good advice further on but this bit is incorrect

Margot123

ThePants999 wrote: »

Agree with Comms. It's very sad, but unfortunately many police officers misunderstand laws relating to tenancies, so you need to (a) escalate until you get someone with a clue, and (b) complain so that those without get "educated".

When you call the Police on 101 or 999 you do not speak with a warranted Police Officer. You speak with civilian staff.

They have to assess whether or not there is a risk to the individual and/or wider public. Unless the OP states they are in fear (not suggesting they do, if that is not the case) then it will be deemed a civil matter.

Comms69

oliviaka wrote: »

I'm not a lodger, she lives in the basement flat below us but we have no shared facilities.
However, she said she bought the flat as a whole one and split it herself, I am suspicious that she never officially split it into 2 separate addresses as our water gas & electric is on the same bill and her address isn't registered with royal mail. Any clues on how legal this is I have tried googling this but I'm not sure where to start?

It shouldn't affect you, in terms of tenancy.


Whilst she may be in hot water for not getting permissions etc, and building regs may need to be checked.


So who pays the bills? Obviously it's another thing you can report her for

Comms69

Margot123 wrote: »

When you call the Police on 101 or 999 you do not speak with a warranted Police Officer. You speak with civilian staff.

They have to assess whether or not there is a risk to the individual and/or wider public. Unless the OP states they are in fear (not suggesting they do, if that is not the case) then it will be deemed a civil matter.

That's a load of nonsense.


It's either a crime or it isn't. Someone reporting a theft isn't in fear; its not a civil matter...

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I always rented fully furnished and broken/defunct washing machines and cookers were repaired/replaced by the LL with no quibbling.

I know it's too late now for the OP, but I would advise everyone reading this thread never to rent a property with the LL living in close proximity. Just seems to brew problems.

OP; I know the LL won't reciprocate, but keep all communication in writing (calm, factual and neutral) going forward. Are you on the electoral register for the property? What about Council Tax? Do you have a proper inventory?

macman

It's a totally bodged unofficial conversion on the cheap: no registration of the flat as a separate dwelling place, no splitting of gas/water/electricity supplies. Then as a landlord, no deposit protection, no GSC, no EPC. The LL is breaking every rule in the book, and deserves to have the book thrown at her. And quite possibly avoiding CT and tax on the rental income as well.
OP, if it's a separate flat, you are responsible for council tax. Are you currently paying it, or paying her a contribution? How many people are registered at the single address on the electoral roll?
With all the above, you have tremendous bargaining power if you wish to use it. But I get the feeling that you would rather just move on?

saajan_12

ariarnia wrote: »

I would have thought - if you can confirmation in writing from either the agent or landlord that the landlord does not consider the washing machine to be their appliance (therefore theirs to repair/replace), you can simply replace the washing machine and consider it your property to take or sell at the end of your tenancy as you choose. - they aren't saying its not the LL's property, they are saying they don't have a responsibility to maintain it. The OP would have to repair themselves or replace with LL's permission, at OP's cost. Alternative would be to replace at OP's cost without permission and argue any deposit deduction stating the LL's machine was 22+ years old so no remaining useful life.

If the landlord is arguing that the washing machine is their appliance but that you have caused it to break through misuse (rather than a natural end of life) then I would suggest the landlord would be required to get an independent report from a plumber (at their expense) confirming it has broken through misuse and a quote for repair/replacement as like for like. - No, if it is LL's machine but they don't have a responsibility to maintain it, then they can just refuse to fix. The don't have to prove who broke it until they try to deduct from a deposit, but that doesn't help OP while living there.

At that point the rules around betterment should come into force and you should be expected to pay whatever percentage would relate to the expected remaining life of the machine according to the expert's report.

If you have a way of talking to your landlord which doesn't involve being berated on your doorstep, you might want to share this article https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/washing-machines-faulty-broken-lifespan-lifetime-warranty-guarantee/

The longest expected lifespan given for a washing machine was 20 years (with the majority being 6-8) meaning your machine is 2 years over the maximum expected life of a Miele machine. You could consider contacting the manufacturer of your current machine and asking them what the expected life of one of their machines with reasonable use would be (and if the response if favourable to your argument, forward this to the landlord/agent). - all only relevant at the point of deposit deductions, doesn't force the LL to repair it now.

Separately, I would suggest you need to write to your landlord (and cc your agent) saying you found their behaviour unacceptable and withdraw their right to turn up unannounced at your property. Note that you consider any repeat of this behaviour to be harassment and a breach of your right to quiet enjoyment of your home. - this I agree with: restate your expectation of 24 hours written notice for access to the property, and any statement shouldn't be taken as an invitation to the LL to visit without the required notice and only to carry out a repair / purpose stated in teh tenancy agreement. Any discussions can be carried out by email or phone.

I would also (personally) contact the council and check your residence has been registered as a separate property as I'm not clear on if you are paying your own council tax and you can be liable even after your tenancy if you've failed to pay. - BE CAREFUL HERE. As the resident tenant, it was your responsibility to register and pay council tax as far as the council is concerned. If your flat has not been registered and council tax paid by anyone for your flat, then the council will bill OP for backdated CT and going forwards. THe council won't care whether the LL agreed to pay it.
You could also drop a note to HMRC with the landlords details and details of your rent to make sure she's not putting it through her business books to avoid tax...- why cause extra agro for something that won't affect nor benefit the OP? Sure, if you want to be a good citizen then do this after you've left and have nothing to lose, but at this point its just has the potential to increase the doorstep screaming matches.

Don't agree with most of your points - could be misleading or make matters worse for OP!

OP the bottom line is
* The LL may not be responsible for white goods, but simply provided those items for your convenience effectively as a loan.
* If you disagree, the only way to enforce a repair is to follow the shelter process, which is long and you have a reasonable chance of paying yourself anyway.
* Best course of action would be to buy a 2nd hand machine at your cost and take it with you. Either store the LL's one if you can to avoid the argument later, or dispose of it and dispute any deduction saying the LL's machine had run out of useful life.
* Re doorstep shouting matches, don't open the door to the LL unless he's given 24hours written notice and is there for a legitimate reason eg to carry out a repair, viewings etc. Don't engage in discussion, and if he refuses to leave once you have asked him to, then contact the police for breach of peace and someone refusing to leave your house. Don't say its a LL no the phone, if they arrive and the LL argues, show your tenancy agreement and state you are being harassed, you should have exclusive possession.