Offering buyer protection outside of eBay?

soolin

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Thank you

I'm not entirely sure which part is confusing.

Could you please tell me where i lose you & i'll try word it better?


So let's paint a picture ... i sell a [item] on [gumtree / facebook] and someone gets in touch & says i'll have it but as i live [miles] from you i can't collect so can you post it.

I say no problem but you need to add on [amount] for the postage. My paypal address is [EMAIL="joebloggs@gimmiemoney.com"]joebloggs@gimmiemoney.com[/EMAIL].

They send me the agreed amount.

I decide not to send the item (wouldn't happen but let's say it did) - what protection do they have where they can get their money back (otherwise what sane person would send money where they couldn't claim for item not received)?

Furthermore what protection do >I< have as a seller?

So the buyer buys the item. £50. It goes missing in the post or arrives damaged or whatever. They're not happy. Let's say they have some protection and i have to refund them £50.

Now i'm without item AND i have no money for it so i'm double out of pocket.

How to i go about getting some sort of compensation for that lost £50?

Can you tell i don't post much?

PayPal works exactly the same both on eBay and off, so the buyer has full protection against items not arriving or not as described exactly as UK law requires. As a seller it's up to you to mitigate your losses, so for a start using the correct postage method to give you protection- have a read of the sticky thread about postage for a start.

theonlywayisup

LawAbiding wrote: »

Not pointless, if the buyer said, you only sent it with 2 batteries instead of 3.

Or it came, with packaging damaged and now not working.

Or one of the batteries does not charge.

Or the IMU calibration fails..........

Then what.....do you think Paypal or eBay will watch your home video?

That aside. If the buyer said "one of the batteries does not charge" then it's game over for the seller, video or full film with Oscars......game over.

JustAnotherSaver

forgotmyname wrote: »

They pay vbia paypal then they have protection, they pay for goods and the goods are not as described so they file a claim and send your junk back.

Right so they would need to make sure they're selecting to send money for goods then (is that setting by default or does it need to be manually selected?)

You have not lost £50 you have some junk instead of the item you sent. The junk maybe your original item or not.

If i'm understanding you right then i may still have lost £50.


So let's say i sell an iPhone (or whatever - it really doesn't matter), perfect working order for £50.



The buyer gets the phone but they're not very honest. They make up some nonsense story about it arriving damaged. So now i have to give them £50 refund and they'd have to send me 'the item' back? Am i right so far?


So i give them £50 refund and they head on down to their post office with something to send. I receive it back and it's nothing but sawdust.


OR...it is an iPhone but not the iPhone that i sent out - it's probably their old knackered iPhone that's broken and they just wanted a working one.
OR...whatever else. Basically the point is i don't receive my item back or i do but it's in a condition that doesn't allow a resale.



So now i don't have the £50 and i don't have the item (or have an item that can't be sold). I know it doesn't happen all the time but it does happen. Is there a way you can protect against this? Have i laid out a scenario that can't happen?

soolin wrote: »

so for a start using the correct postage method to give you protection- .

As a minimum i always send via a signed for method which i think protects up to £20. If i'm selling something that's say £30, £40 or so then i'll still probably send via the signed for method depending on what it is.


If we're going upwards towards £100 and beyond then generally i'll send via RM Special Delivery or a courier, depending which is cheaper to send (providing the item value is still covered).

shapala

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Right so they would need to make sure they're selecting to send money for goods then (is that setting by default or does it need to be manually selected?)
If i'm understanding you right then i may still have lost £50.


So let's say i sell an iPhone (or whatever - it really doesn't matter), perfect working order for £50.



The buyer gets the phone but they're not very honest. They make up some nonsense story about it arriving damaged. So now i have to give them £50 refund and they'd have to send me 'the item' back? Am i right so far?


So i give them £50 refund and they head on down to their post office with something to send. I receive it back and it's nothing but sawdust.


OR...it is an iPhone but not the iPhone that i sent out - it's probably their old knackered iPhone that's broken and they just wanted a working one.
OR...whatever else. Basically the point is i don't receive my item back or i do but it's in a condition that doesn't allow a resale.



So now i don't have the £50 and i don't have the item (or have an item that can't be sold). I know it doesn't happen all the time but it does happen. Is there a way you can protect against this? Have i laid out a scenario that can't happen?


As a minimum i always send via a signed for method which i think protects up to £20. If i'm selling something that's say £30, £40 or so then i'll still probably send via the signed for method depending on what it is.


If we're going upwards towards £100 and beyond then generally i'll send via RM Special Delivery or a courier, depending which is cheaper to send (providing the item value is still covered).

To be honest, and I sell expensive electronics mainly, although not for much longer since I'm fed up with eBay, but taking a video/photos of it being returned to you before signing for anything is what you should do, and make sure serial numbers match up, or it's not a brick you get back etc, obviously if it's a different item you don't sign for it and demand you're not accepting it, and contact eBay/PP ASAP.

I take pics of all serial numbers/service tags before sending anything though don't know if it makes any different tbh. If you sign for it and it's a diff item, eBay will 99% likely still side with the buyer but you could potentially take buyer to small claims and hope to prove they're fraudulent. Obviously that's a lot of time wasted and you could lose the case.

A guy I know who sold a £2000 Alienware laptop had exactly this happen and ultimately cost him so much time (he took pics of the laptop before of serials numbers and was sent a swap-out laptop worth nothing. He signed for it without thinking which obviously is what cost him. Court saw in his favour after he provided as much evidence as he could but buyer never repaid so bailiffs had to be arranged as I remember (this was months later). Buyer then set up monthly payments to pay off the debt but it was so much time and stress.

Latest issue I had was over a brand new pair of Sennheiser h/phones I sold. After a few days, buyer said the stitching of an ear cup came away and opened a case. Obviously these things occasionally do happen so I asked him to return via prepaid courier. When I received the h/phones more than TWO weeks later, none of the accessories were included, nor the box and packaging (for expensive headphones, you don't simply throw these things away and would likely get £20-30 for those things alone). Anyway, gave the guy a partial refund of 90% after telling him I was not happy the item wasn't what was sent (which is more than fair since because of my supplier, not having original packaging etc makes them worthless and I can't return therefore I have a worthless pair of headphones). He obviously kicked off. Sadly, I was away that day and so it was my wife who signed for them not knowing to check contents (she's busy enough lol). eBay then investigated and within 24 hours on a weekend had given him a full refund, costing me that extra 10%. I contacted eBay saying I'm extremely unhappy that the item is NOT what was sent without packaging, accessories etc, and amazingly they sided with me and reinstated the partial refund, though that came out of eBay's pocket rather than buyer's as a 'goodwill gesture' You have to laugh before you cry :rotfl:

LawAbiding

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Then what.....do you think Paypal or eBay will watch your home video?

In the Paypal case, you can now link to external links. I had to open a case against a seller from Facebook, who sent me something which was not described.

She then claimed, she told me everything on Facebook Messenger. I uploaded Screenshots of our conversation with no mention of the issue to Google Drive, and provided sharing link to the folder to PayPal. PayPal ruled in my favor.

I am not claiming, its a fool proof way of doing things, but just that it decreases chance of fraud by buyers.

theonlywayisup

LawAbiding wrote: »

In the Paypal case, you can now link to external links. I had to open a case against a seller from Facebook, who sent me something which was not described.

She then claimed, she told me everything on Facebook Messenger. I uploaded Screenshots of our conversation with no mention of the issue to Google Drive, and provided sharing link to the folder to PayPal. PayPal ruled in my favor.

As a buyer you would always be favoured. It would always be wise to add any screenshots of emails etc, in fact Paypal urge you to.

LawAbiding wrote: »

I am not claiming, its a fool proof way of doing things, but just that it decreases chance of fraud by buyers.

It is a waste of your time. Paypal buyer and seller protection are not interested in 22 minute long videos of anything.

JustAnotherSaver

The headphones is an interesting one because i actually do have a pair of Sennheiser headphones that i want to sell that cost me about £170 brand new & i used them for all of about 5 mins so they're pretty much 'as new' (i'm sure we've all done those stupid purchases where we wonder why we even bothered?? Please don't judge me lol).



I know people often talk about time and effort when it comes to chasing your money but for me - if i'm entitled to something then i have all the time in the world to chase. If the other person sets up a small monthly repayment plan then it wouldn't matter to me whether they pay in small lumps or 1 big lump so long as i get back what i'm entitled to.