Offering buyer protection outside of eBay?

JustAnotherSaver

With eBay the buyer has plenty of protection, to the point where it's a system that could and probably is abused. If your item doesn't turn up & you're a buyer then contact eBay & you'll end up with your money back somewhere along the line.


At the moment i'm also looking at listing things on Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace & possibly Shpock if i've spelled it right but so far i've only ever done collection only items on those.


If i advertise as being available for postage too then how can i guarantee anything for the buyer? I'm thinking surely it has to be through PayPal here but how can i assure them that they can pay me and i wont just do a runner with their money? What protection can they as a buyer have?

LawAbiding

I recently sold my drone via Facebook and payment via PayPal.

I sold it for £750. I insisted on the buyer paying for full Royal Mail up to £800 insurance, which cost an extra £36. So if it got lost in post, I would be covered.

I got him to pay via good/services to protect him and me, another £20 odd quid in fees here.

This next part may seem extreme:

As I was very very nervous about sending it and the buyer claiming, parts missing (it was a combo kit with quite a few extra bits) or stating there was something wrong with it, and no doubt PayPal would side with him.

I recorded a 22 minute video, of me showing everything being packed up, going through each part / accessories and packing it in the original packaging. I also showed the batteries working, and booted up the drone and performed diagnostic checks on the drone, to prove nothing was wrong with it.

I then sealed the box on video and placed the package label across the package, so if you were to open it, you would have to cut into the package label. The video continues by me walking to the post office (1 min walk), and in the post office dropping it off and obtaining a receipt.

I show the receipt on the video. At the beginning of the video, I showed the date and time using Sky TV, and showed the date and time of the receipt at the end of the video.

Hence 22 minute video!

I then got the buyer to send me a photo of the package before he opened it, this showed the exact same condition as I dropped off at the post office.

I told the buy everything I had done and he found it amusing.

I was much more relaxed having that video in my possession, whilst I could defend myself with PayPal, I still couldn't defend myself if the buyer decided to do a "chargeback" (Google it, paypal chargeback scam). But with all the evidence, I would be willing to take him to a small claims court.

Everything went smoothly and the buyer had no issues.

As I said, extreme, but it was a rather expensive item.

But I have had some bad experiences with PayPal as a seller, so you have to do everything you can to protect yourself. As majority of cases, PayPal sides with the buyer. Great if you are a buyer and have a genuine concern.

theonlywayisup

With eBay the buyer has 30 days protection. With Paypal it's 180 days.

I'm not entirely sure of your question.

theonlywayisup

LawAbiding wrote: »

I recently sold my drone via Facebook and payment via PayPal.

I sold it for £750. I insisted on the buyer paying for full Royal Mail up to £800 insurance, which cost an extra £36. So if it got lost in post, I would be covered.

I got him to pay via good/services to protect him and me, another £20 odd quid in fees here.

This next part may seem extreme:

As I was very very nervous about sending it and the buyer claiming, parts missing (it was a combo kit with quite a few extra bits) or stating there was something wrong with it, and no doubt PayPal would side with him.

I recorded a 22 minute video, of me showing everything being packed up, going through each part / accessories and packing it in the original packaging. I also showed the batteries working, and booted up the drone and performed diagnostic checks on the drone, to prove nothing was wrong with it.

I then sealed the box on video and placed the package label across the package, so if you were to open it, you would have to cut into the package label. The video continues by me walking to the post office (1 min walk), and in the post office dropping it off and obtaining a receipt.

I show the receipt on the video. At the beginning of the video, I showed the date and time using Sky TV, and showed the date and time of the receipt at the end of the video.

Hence 22 minute video!

I then got the buyer to send me a photo of the package before he opened it, this showed the exact same condition as I dropped off at the post office.

I told the buy everything I had done and he found it amusing.

I was much more relaxed having that video in my possession, whilst I could defend myself with PayPal, I still couldn't defend myself if the buyer decided to do a "chargeback" (Google it, paypal chargeback scam). But with all the evidence, I would be willing to take him to a small claims court.

Everything went smoothly and the buyer had no issues.

As I said, extreme, but it was a rather expensive item.

I am sorry, but that is not only extreme but it's extremely pointless as far as Paypal protection goes.

ballisticbrian

Who is going to sit and watch a video that could be faked? It's completely pointless. A guy on this forum about 3 years ago videod himself opening a parcl which had a brick in it and then you tubed his phone call to eBay in which they basically said why on earth would you do that. All he had succeeded in doing was arouse suspicion on himself.

What you completely fail to notice is the big part trust plays in the online and mail order business process. If this trust was missing, or not sustained by the vast majority of people, the whole system would break apart and people would go about business the old way.

LawAbiding

theonlywayisup wrote: »

I am sorry, but that is not only extreme but it's extremely pointless as far as Paypal protection goes.

Not pointless, if the buyer said, you only sent it with 2 batteries instead of 3.

Or it came, with packaging damaged and now not working.

Or one of the batteries does not charge.

Or the IMU calibration fails..........

LawAbiding

ballisticbrian wrote: »

Who is going to sit and watch a video that could be faked? It's completely pointless. A guy on this forum about 3 years ago videod himself opening a parcl which had a brick in it and then you tubed his phone call to eBay in which they basically said why on earth would you do that. All he had succeeded in doing was arouse suspicion on himself.

How can you fake a video with the date and time from Sky TV, then 22 minutes later, date and time from the receipt from the post office, which believe it or not is 22 mins from the start of the video. No cuts in the video, one continuous recording.

soolin

LawAbiding wrote: »

I recently sold my drone via Facebook and payment via PayPal.

I sold it for £750. I insisted on the buyer paying for full Royal Mail up to £800 insurance, which cost an extra £36. So if it got lost in post, I would be covered.

I got him to pay via good/services to protect him and me, another £20 odd quid in fees here.

This next part may seem extreme:

As I was very very nervous about sending it and the buyer claiming, parts missing (it was a combo kit with quite a few extra bits) or stating there was something wrong with it, and no doubt PayPal would side with him.

I recorded a 22 minute video, of me showing everything being packed up, going through each part / accessories and packing it in the original packaging. I also showed the batteries working, and booted up the drone and performed diagnostic checks on the drone, to prove nothing was wrong with it.

I then sealed the box on video and placed the package label across the package, so if you were to open it, you would have to cut into the package label. The video continues by me walking to the post office (1 min walk), and in the post office dropping it off and obtaining a receipt.

I show the receipt on the video. At the beginning of the video, I showed the date and time using Sky TV, and showed the date and time of the receipt at the end of the video.

Hence 22 minute video!

I then got the buyer to send me a photo of the package before he opened it, this showed the exact same condition as I dropped off at the post office.

I told the buy everything I had done and he found it amusing.

I was much more relaxed having that video in my possession, whilst I could defend myself with PayPal, I still couldn't defend myself if the buyer decided to do a "chargeback" (Google it, paypal chargeback scam). But with all the evidence, I would be willing to take him to a small claims court.

Everything went smoothly and the buyer had no issues.

As I said, extreme, but it was a rather expensive item.

But I have had some bad experiences with PayPal as a seller, so you have to do everything you can to protect yourself. As majority of cases, PayPal sides with the buyer. Great if you are a buyer and have a genuine concern.

So if I had a seller who was a scammer and who did all that, and then quickly opened the parcel and put a broken one in instead you would expect me to lose any claim? I really don't think you have thought this through, it doesn't matter how it left you, all that matters is how it arrives at the buyer, and an item can easily get damaged in the post without showing any damage to the outer box.

Any buyer is extremely likely to win a case, that's probably why your buyer was 'amused'.

Incidentally, a chargeback is the easiest thing to defend, much easier than a SNAD. For a chargeback for fraudulent use of a card all you need is proof of postage within 7 days to the buyers PayPal address.

LawAbiding

soolin wrote: »

So if I had a seller who was a scammer and who did all that, and then quickly opened the parcel and put a broken one in instead you would expect me to lose any claim? I really don't think you have thought this through, it doesn't matter how it left you, all that matters is how it arrives at the buyer, and an item can easily get damaged in the post without showing any damage to the outer box.

Any buyer is extremely likely to win a case, that's probably why your buyer was 'amused'.

Incidentally, a chargeback is the easiest thing to defend, much easier than a SNAD. For a chargeback for fraudulent use of a card all you need is proof of postage within 7 days to the buyers PayPal address.

Appreciate your viewpoint and some of what you say is right, if it didnt work, likely the buyer would have a claim approved and I would have to refund. This was to minimise the possibility of issues. It was one continuous video, so no chance of swapping it out with a dodgy unit.

The buyer couldn't claim for missing items, or anything like that when the video showed it being packaged, sealed and the box being dropped it, with the box never leaving the videos view.

Thanks for the information on chargeback, could they not claim a chargeback on a faulty item? Or is it purely for fraudulent cases?

JustAnotherSaver

theonlywayisup wrote: »

With eBay the buyer has 30 days protection. With Paypal it's 180 days.

Thank you

I'm not entirely sure of your question.

I'm not entirely sure which part is confusing.

Could you please tell me where i lose you & i'll try word it better?


So let's paint a picture ... i sell a [item] on [gumtree / facebook] and someone gets in touch & says i'll have it but as i live [miles] from you i can't collect so can you post it.

I say no problem but you need to add on [amount] for the postage. My paypal address is [EMAIL="joebloggs@gimmiemoney.com"]joebloggs@gimmiemoney.com[/EMAIL].

They send me the agreed amount.

I decide not to send the item (wouldn't happen but let's say it did) - what protection do they have where they can get their money back (otherwise what sane person would send money where they couldn't claim for item not received)?

Furthermore what protection do >I< have as a seller?

So the buyer buys the item. £50. It goes missing in the post or arrives damaged or whatever. They're not happy. Let's say they have some protection and i have to refund them £50.

Now i'm without item AND i have no money for it so i'm double out of pocket.

How to i go about getting some sort of compensation for that lost £50?

Can you tell i don't post much?

forgotmyname

They pay vbia paypal then they have protection, they pay for goods and the goods are not as described so they file a claim and send your junk back.

They get their money and you get some junk.

You have not lost £50 you have some junk instead of the item you sent. The junk maybe your original item or not.