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Landlord wants more money

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in House Buying, Renting & Selling
127 replies 16.2K views
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  • Jm90Jm90 Forumite
    117 posts
    Oh i see, i said i know he can't serve a section 21.
    She said yes not that, however there is another he can use.
    It definitely was S8 G1 on the phone she mentioned.

    This was in the email ive just noticed.
    I will copy and paste what she has said.


    "Thank you for sending this over. Unfortunately, the tenancy agreement does include a ‘prior notice’ that the Landlord may rely on ground 1, Schedule 2 of the 1988 Housing Act and so, provided the Notice is written in the correct format and gives 2 months’ Notice, this will be a mandatory ground for possession"
  • CarrieVSCarrieVS Forumite
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    I am some random idiot on the internet with ZERO experience in tenancy law. But since everyone else including Shelter seem to be in disagreement, I may as well add my two-pennyworth.
    The intention of a ground 1 notice is to allow possession ... due to living in the property as the landlords only or principle home. However, possession may not be sought during the fixed term and even during any periodic term, two months notice is required. Therefore, since February 1997, the normal section 21 notice (2 months notice) is used and a landlord does not need to prove whether they intend to live in the property or not.
    (Emphasis mine)

    This comes from a site supplying landlords with advice and documents (I can't post a link but the site is called landlordsguild). I should note that I can't find this provision in the actual text of the law, but I don't really know how to read it or whether that provision even comes from the same legislation. (It mentions February 1997 so perhaps some additional protections for tenants were brought into force then. Does anyone know?)

    But if accurate, given that you are in the 12 month fixed term of your tenancy, this means that your landlord can ask you on this ground to move out at the end of that 12 month term (provided he gives the proper notice.) You may possibly want to go back to Shelter and point out that the agent has told you he will serve notice under this ground to take possession before the end of the fixed period, and ask them if that makes a difference, as I'm sure they know more than me.

    For what it's worth, I have my suspicions that the landlord never authorised a 12 month contract, the agent offered you one by mistake and realised that mistake after it was signed, then tried to paper over the crack in their a*se by changing the contract, hoping you would agree to the amendment without realising you had no obligation to. If so they're probably in extremely hot water with their client, your landlord, but that's no fault of yours and they can't punish you for it.

    I can't imagine there'd be any harm in setting out explicitly in writing to the agent (if you haven't already) the fact that you have a 12 month contract signed by both parties, that any 6 month contract was never signed by you, and that any such contract with your signature on it is fraudulent. I know you told them over the phone but I'm willing to bet you could set out your position more clearly and unambiguously on paper, besides that having a paper record may carry a lot more weight if it should come to any sort of arbitration or even to court (and makes it clear to them that you know your rights and are capable of defending them - if they know they are in the wrong and are trying to scare you into leaving voluntarily, that may make them back down.)

    Keep copies of anything you send them in writing, and write down what was said in all conversations, just in case it's needed.
  • edited 14 September 2018 at 12:25PM
    Pixie5740Pixie5740 Forumite
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    edited 14 September 2018 at 12:25PM
    Jm90 wrote: »
    "Thank you for sending this over. Unfortunately, the tenancy agreement does include a ‘prior notice’ that the Landlord may rely on ground 1, Schedule 2 of the 1988 Housing Act and so, provided the Notice is written in the correct format and gives 2 months’ Notice, this will be a mandatory ground for possession"

    This is what the Housing Act 1988, Section 7 - Orders for Possession says:
    (5A)The court shall not make an order for possession of a dwellinghouse let on an assured periodic tenancy arising under Schedule 10 to the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 on any of the following grounds, that is to say,—
    (a)Grounds 1, 2 , 5, 7A and 7B in Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act;
    (b)Ground 16 in Part II of that Schedule; and
    (c)if the assured periodic tenancy arose on the termination of a former 1954 Act tenancy, within the meaning of the said Schedule 10, Ground 6 in Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act.
    (6)The court shall not make an order for possession of a dwelling-house to take effect at a time when it is let on an assured fixed term tenancy unless
    (a)the ground for possession is Ground 2, Ground 7A, Ground 7B or Ground 8 in Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act or any of the grounds in Part II of that Schedule, other than Ground 9 or Ground 16; and
    (b)the terms of the tenancy make provision for it to be brought to an end on the ground in question (whether that provision takes the form of a provision for re-entry, for forfeiture, for determination by notice or otherwise).

    That reads to me* that Section 8 Ground 1 cannot be used to end a fixed term early. Mind you that section relates to Assured Tenancies rather than Short Assured Tenancies. Go back and query that with Shelter Cymru.

    I wonder then what the point of Ground 1 is then, is it just faster than a Section 21 and a mandatory ground for eviction even if the landlord has c0cked up i.e. not protected the deposit, provided a GSC, etc.

    *Caveat: I am not a lawyer and I have not handled over 1,000 cases, not even to file them. ;)
  • Comms69Comms69 Forumite
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    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    This is what the Housing Act 1988, Section 7 - Orders for Possession says:



    That reads to me* that Section 8 Ground 1 cannot be used to end a fixed term early. Go back and query that with Shelter Cymru.

    I wonder then what the point of Ground 1 is then, is it just faster than a Section 21 and a mandatory ground for eviction even if the landlord has c0cked up i.e. not protected the deposit, provided a GSC, etc.

    *Caveat: I am not a lawyer and I have not handled over 1,000 cases, not even to file them. ;)
    :) You're right it's basically an 'easy' s.21 that doesn't need to concern itself with deposit, GSC, etc.


    Tessa summarised the same way in her series on evictions
  • Jm90Jm90 Forumite
    117 posts
    Thank you,

    Well, ive not received a notice today or heard anything so until i do, i won't act.
    Maybe it was an idle threat in the hope i will agree to pay three months in advance, who knows the estate agent hasnt mentioned it...yet

    Ive read up on the ground shelter quoted me ' Ground 1, schedual 2' but i think (hope) it only applies to AT not AST

    Shelter seemed to think cos they wrote in the contact he would be able to take possesion under this ground then it can be used.

    Ive emailed shelter asking to check again.

    I guess the estate agent thinks, as they changed things their end that we have until feb 19, however ours is until august 19, which if he cannot use this ground i will fight it.

    I also think the landlord has no idea we have a signed 12 month contract, i think they have realised they made a huge error. I have no way in contacting him directly or whether i should.
    Only way would be via his father who lives in the village.

    I know people get annoyed that im asking or feel as though i am questioning their advice but need to be 100% certain as everything feels so conflicting.
  • Comms69Comms69 Forumite
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    Jm90 wrote: »
    Thank you,

    Well, ive not received a notice today or heard anything so until i do, i won't act.
    Maybe it was an idle threat in the hope i will agree to pay three months in advance, who knows the estate agent hasnt mentioned it...yet

    Ive read up on the ground shelter quoted me ' Ground 1, schedual 2' but i think (hope) it only applies to AT not AST

    Shelter seemed to think cos they wrote in the contact he would be able to take possesion under this ground then it can be used.

    Ive emailed shelter asking to check again.

    I guess the estate agent thinks, as they changed things their end that we have until feb 19, however ours is until august 19, which if he cannot use this ground i will fight it.

    I also think the landlord has no idea we have a signed 12 month contract, i think they have realised they made a huge error. I have no way in contacting him directly or whether i should.
    Only way would be via his father who lives in the village.

    I know people get annoyed that im asking or feel as though i am questioning their advice but need to be 100% certain as everything feels so conflicting.



    Trust G_M, Pixie, (me) :)


    I'm not judging anyone else because lots of people has been correct, but if you get 2 of the 3 saying the same thing you're onto a winner.


    Your best bet is to decide how much you want to be paid to move out and see how desperate the landlord gets.
  • Jm90Jm90 Forumite
    117 posts
    So shelter now agree that should he serve a notice, it would not take effect until the end of the fixed term... They are just trying to find out if he could potentially serve the notice now ready for the end of the fixed term...

    I had another call from the estate agents today, saying the landlord is still returning and wants the house back by the end of November, he has offered to pay our moving costs upto the total of £300 for us to leave.
    I said we have a tenancy and she said yes, until Feb, so I said that the one I have here which is until August which she said she would check.
    However when she came back just said to talk it over with my husband about moving, no more mention of the tenancy length.
    I asked what ground he would be using and she said ' well, it's for personal reasons really and would like to move back to the property'

    Nothing in writing as of yet. I am going to email but not sure how to word it as I am not prepared to move right before Xmas if I don't have too.
  • Pixie5740Pixie5740 Forumite
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    You have 2 choices.

    1) Stick to your guns and see out your legally binding 12 month AST.

    2) Present your terms for agreeing an early surrender. I can guarantee that if the shoe were on the other foot the landlord would want more than an extra £300 if you wanted to end the tenancy early. If you are prepared to move early you tell them when you're prepared to move i.e. you could move out next month and pick a number greater than £300.
  • Jm90Jm90 Forumite
    117 posts
    Thanks pixie.
  • Id suggest 3x the monthly rental amount would be the right figure to ask for :beer:
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