Window replacement: deed of variation / planning permission

Nick_C

Mokka wrote: »

I am guessing your flat had been originally acquired from the council under Right to Buy. So although you have not acquired it yourself through RTB it is still governed by RTB rules laid out in Housing Act Part V. These rules state the freeholder is responsible for all structural repairs.

You are probably right, but in some cases Wandsworth Council sold off entire estates to Leaseholders!

Mokka

Nick_C wrote: »

You are probably right, but in some cases Wandsworth Council sold off entire estates to Leaseholders!

If it's not a RTB lease it can be changed more easily and windows added to the demised premises.

SmashedAvacado

£450 to me seems like a cheap fee. I have seen lots of fees a lot higher than this to cover the legal fees and surveying fees to approve the works. It is not unusual for a fee of £1500 plus VAT for the licence to alter to be payable plust a surveying fee of £700 ish plus VAT. I am not sure what world Mokka lives in but the suggested costs are completely off market / off what is reasonable for a freeholder to charge when considering something you want to do to their property (the window frames belong to the freeholder as discovered above)

Tom99

SmashedAvacado wrote: »

£450 to me seems like a cheap fee. I have seen lots of fees a lot higher than this to cover the legal fees and surveying fees to approve the works. It is not unusual for a fee of £1500 plus VAT for the licence to alter to be payable plust a surveying fee of £700 ish plus VAT. I am not sure what world Mokka lives in but the suggested costs are completely off market / off what is reasonable for a freeholder to charge when considering something you want to do to their property (the window frames belong to the freeholder as discovered above)

The windows are included in the demise so belong to the tenant.

SmashedAvacado

Tom99 wrote: »

The windows are included in the demise so belong to the tenant.

That is not the case.

The words "EXCEPT AND RESERVING from the Flat the window frames and the external door frames and the main structural parts of the block....""

mean that the frames belong to the freeholder, but the casements and the panes belong to the tenant.

Tom99

SmashedAvacado wrote: »

That is not the case.

The words "EXCEPT AND RESERVING from the Flat the window frames and the external door frames and the main structural parts of the block....""

mean that the frames belong to the freeholder, but the casements and the panes belong to the tenant.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Yes of course you are right, my mistake – sorry![/FONT]

nicmyles

Agree with the poster who said just do it and deal with retrospective planning later in the very unlikely event any enforcement action materialises. The worst that could happen is you'd be made to change them back, but given you're intending to make them the same as all of your neighbouring flats, that is in turn very unlikely.

It's not the proper way to do it, but your risk is pretty minimal. We replaced windows like for like in a conservation area with no permission, never heard anything from anyone and sold the flat with no issues whatsoever.

On the deed of variation, given that as I understand it this is not a cosmetic choice, but the windows need to be repaired, thus safeguarding the freeholder's interests, I find it very hard to believe they would charge you for doing this, so I would try to have a discussion with them about it. Of course, if they do want paying, I guess you will have to pay!

Mokka

SmashedAvacado wrote: »

£450 to me seems like a cheap fee. I have seen lots of fees a lot higher than this to cover the legal fees and surveying fees to approve the works. It is not unusual for a fee of £1500 plus VAT for the licence to alter to be payable plust a surveying fee of £700 ish plus VAT. I am not sure what world Mokka lives in but the suggested costs are completely off market / off what is reasonable for a freeholder to charge when considering something you want to do to their property (the window frames belong to the freeholder as discovered above)

The fact that 'you've seen lots of higher fees' does not make them lawful. I would advise to read through FTT and Upper Tribunal (Leasehold) cases which consider the reasonableness of administration charges.

Replacing windows does not require expensive surveys, and definitely no lawyers to get involved. I can see Smashed Avocado happily inhabits Ripoff Britain- there is no need for anyone else to follow her lead.

Mokka

nicmyles wrote: »

On the deed of variation, given that as I understand it this is not a cosmetic choice, but the windows need to be repaired, thus safeguarding the freeholder's interests, I find it very hard to believe they would charge you for doing this, so I would try to have a discussion with them about it.
Do not underestimate the toxic incompetence inherent in modus operandi of many leasehold departments of various Local Authorities. People who work there do not think in these terms.
!

To reiterate: legally it should be the freeholder changing the windows. They are obliged to do so if the windows are in disrepair. You could take them to court and force them to do so. It is expensive to file a claim in County Court, and takes ages, so it might not be practical.
If the freeholder refuses to anything about repairing your windows and they are in a really bad shape you might go through so called 'self-help' route. You can read more about this on the LEASE website.

Mokka

Very recent post on the subject:
https://www.lease-advice.org/article/consent-to-alterations-improvements-in-a-leasehold-property-what-charges-can-be-justified/?dm_i=OUE,5U5G8,L2OV47,MT3Y9,1#