Info needed re keeper \ registered keeper on ECP appeal page - Now CST LAW Letter - should i pay !

megkram

Hi, new to the forum, have read the newbie post etc, not sure if I have missed this, I read when you are appealing on the ECP website not to say you are the registered keeper but to say you are the keeper


when appealing it only gives you 4 options - registered keeper , driver & registered keeper, hirer/lease, and none of the above.


which one should I choose ?


Thanks

Fruitcake

If you are appealing as the keeper but not the registered keeper, then the obvious choice is none of the above.
There is nothing wrong with appealing as registered keeper though if that is the case.
The whole point is to not click on anything or say anything that identifies The Driver.

The idea of using keeper instead of registered keeper is to cover situations where the day to day keeper (the person in charge of the car at the material time) is not the registered keeper.
This avoids having to give away the driver's identity.

megkram

wow,,, thanks hahah I think I understand, I am the registered keeper of the vehicle.


It so frustrating, thanks for your help

Coupon-mad

So you appeal.

Fruitcake

Edit post 3 to remove information about who was driving!

The Driver and The Keeper are two different people, one of whom has protections in law that the other does not.

megkram

Ok have appealed and took screenshots etc just in case, but will keep you guys updated, thanks for the confidence, out of my comfort zone here haha

megkram

Hi finally got the decision back, it arrived last night and was rejected, ok so they have provided me with a long letter explaining things saying it doesn't matter if i was not the driver, i am the registered keeper etc, they have provided a POPLA code, but on the letter they say if i use any other 3rd party from now then the reduced rate comes to an end.. i am now walking on unknown ground, and unsure what the next step is, if anyone can give me an idea that would be great, i am also going to start looking through the forum

Umkomaas

they have provided a POPLA code

So using that is your next step.

i am also going to start looking through the forum

Yep, plenty of your own research, alongside expert coaching from regulars, will give you a much better chance of killing this off. But rather than just read random threads, why not go to straight to the heart of things and read the post specifically written to guide newbies through the POPLA process - the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3.

In addition why not look at some previous ECP POPLA appeals (winning ones and losing ones) so you can learn from the best and avoid any pitfalls from the failures. Search under keywords 'ECP POPLA'

HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

Use the Forum Jump button (one near the top and one near the bottom of this page) to get back to the forum thread list. Just above the threads, on the right, is a heading along a line, next to forum tools, called 'Search this Forum'. Put your key word(s) in and change the default search from 'Show Threads' to 'Show Posts'.

megkram

Hi i am learning a lot in this such short space of time and this is the reply i received, point 2 ? is that correct or incorrect can someone confirm please, they also sent pics but unable to see driver.

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
the following reasons:

The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR).

Euro Car Parks do not need to provide evidence of who was driving the vehicle, it is the
registered keeper’s responsibility to inform of the full name and address within 28 days
beginning with the day after the notice was given. If the full amount remains unpaid, under
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), Euro Car Parks have the right
subject of the Act to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much
of that amount which remains unpaid.

Any form of parking ticket or ‘notice’ is issued under the law ‘of trespass and Contract Law’.
A driver who is invited (or chooses) to park on private land and use the car parking facilities and pays a fee/s does so under a contract (signage) with the car park operator. The parking
contract sets out the terms that apply to the parking service, including the price.

I would respectfully remind that contract law applies in this instance. The car park is private
property and signage on entrance and within the private car park the signage on site clearly
set out the rules and regulations of the car park and tariffs.

With regards to the reference to “Pre-Estimate of Loss/breach of consumer contracts 1999.”
Please be advised that the Supreme Court has made judgement (04/11/15) that clearly sets
out the issue of parking charge notices on private land (law of contract applies) and in
particular pre-estimate of loss. The parking charge notice is enforceable on the basis that it
protected a legitimate interest when the driver failed to adhere to the terms and conditions
and was not extravagant, exorbitant nor unconscionable. The parking charge is not an
unenforceable penalty and does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts
Regulations 1999.
C1 MB
AR/NoPD/v.001

The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) does not alter the principle of driver liability. What it
does do, is to allow proceedings against the registered keeper for unpaid parking charges
when the landowner or their agent, the parking operator does not know who the driver was at
the time. The creditor/operator must follow the procedures set out in PoFA Schedule 4 to
achieve the benefits of keeper liability

Cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their
length of stay on site.

When purchasing a pay and display ticket, you must enter the correct vehicle registration
number (VRM) and this information is directed to the camera system.

I can confirm that no pay and display ticket matching your VRM was purchased at the time of the terms and conditions.

The signage is clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased for the full duration of
your stay on the car park.

I can confirm the parking charge notice was issued correctly and remains payable.
Please make payment of the discounted amount of £60.00 by visiting our website at
link removed or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make
your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque
processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to
£100.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges
applicable.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You can make an appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (POPLA) within 28 days online at link removed with the following reference number xxxxxxxxxxx. Alternatively, if you wish to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service by post a copy of the appeal application can be sent at your request. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate will be at an end. If you opt to pay the parking charge notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services
provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with
your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution
service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

Coupon-mad

That's a bog standard rejection letter, no need to show us their drivel, and I am not sure what you mean by #2?

What they say is correct, but very basic and tedious for us, and none of it matters even if you lose at POPLA, because NO-ONE here pays ECP!

megkram

Ok thanks for the reassurance