Need some advice on a buyer requesting refund for NAD

antispam246

I'm a private seller, recently sold something with a 100% honest description, item was in mint condition (collectors item).


Item was tracked and delivered successfully, 16 days later, the buyer messages me (overseas (European)) buyer, to state the item arrived damaged, was a boxed blu ray. He sent me an image of the damage which is essentially some very minor but noticeable punch marks in the casing, which he has also unsealed.


So, immediately confused I checked my own records, which literally consist of photos and a video of the item and it being wrapped (I do this with every item I sell because NAD is just too open to being scammed). Sure enough, as I already knew, the damage indicated was absolutely not present when sent. Furthermore, prior to the sale the buyer had been very OTT with querying it's condition and how I should ensure it was well protected. I pride myself on this, as a small time seller, most of my 100% feedback reflects how well I protect and package my sales.


So I'm at the stage where he's potentially trying to play me with NAD because he's either damaged the item when he's unsealed it or has swapped it for a previously aquired damaged one, as it's a generic bluray there's no specific identity to tell it from one or another.


The packaging it was sent it, heavily bubble wrapped and double corrugated cardboard box absolutely would not account for the damage shown. Furthermore when I asked he send pictures of the packaging he stated he had thrown it away and it was no longer retrievable. This basically means I will have very little chance of making a claim with royal mail with whom it was fully covered with, although still potentially an option.


I've spoken directly with ebay and they have stated I should initiate a return and then assess the item on return and can potentially appeal the decision. When I asked how that would work on a financial compensation basis, they told me they couldn't say until a dispute had been opened and the return complete, I did point out the obvious here but didn't get any further other than a promise that they would assist me as the buyer if the item returned was not as sent.


The buyer has now opened a return case and is demanding I also pay for the return postage fee.


Not going to lie, I'm not amused here But I'm also confused as to where exactly I stand and the best route here to protect myself.


There's just too many little things here which are not adding up and pointing to me being done over but nothing concrete. The buyers last feedback left for another seller was a NAD negative also. Might mean nothing but with everything else is rining alarm bells.


The listing was set as "No returns" although I'm unsure on how that helps, if at all. I believe I'm not obligated to pay the return costs, especially inlight of the circumstances, right?


I know he's going to neg me but I also know I can get that turned over later on.


Considering everything and the fact I have a very substantial amount of evidence as to the condition of the item prior to sending and it's packaging, what are my chances of winning this thing and how exactly will it happen


The return process is asking me to accept return whereby I pay postage return costs, offer full refund, partial refund or message seller. The buyer is also stating he will not return item until I pay for the return postage costs.


My initial thoughts are to simply message back and state I will not pay return postage costs and will consider a refund on return of the item for inspection. Then just let it roll from there.


Sorry for the lengthy query, just want to cover all bases as it's my first NAD as a seller

soolin

Ok I'll try and keep my response concise so that others can add to it as necessary.

Firstly, your no returns statement is immaterial here as buyer hasn't opened an NAD claim, that also leaves you obligated to pay return postage, but this might be cheaper if you accept the option of allowing eBay to send a label and bill you later. (The cost should show before you confirm that option).

If you refuse to send a label or allow eBay to do so then claim will automatically close in favour of buyer with no need for the buyer to return item.

All you can do is get item back and if you feel there has been a swap to appeal the decision as eBay have suggested.

Incidentally, proof of condition as sent is of no value as anything can happen en route, I once had a parcel arrived with a tyre mark across it where it looks like a forklift or something ran it over!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

antispam246 wrote: »

Furthermore, prior to the sale the buyer had been very OTT with querying it's condition and how I should ensure it was well protected. I pride myself on this

I never sell to people like this, they are either blocked or I cancel their order. Sure some buyers may be genuine but normally it ends in tears.

Basically you need to accept the return, eBay expect you to provide a return label but there should be an option to select that you can't do so and you'll arrange return postage with the buyer.

Tell the buyer to return (worth checking their country's postal service website to see if you can get a rough idea of cost and advise this is what amount you'll refund save any arguments over them using the most expensive service they can find).

When it comes back you'll need to refund, an appeal to eBay is likely to be a waste of time but you can try.

Don't rely on customer service to give you correct advice nor listen to them if they tell you everything will be hunky-dory.

If you don't accept the return the buyer will likely be issued a refund by eBay without the goods being returned.

What is the buyers feedback like? Worth noting there is a chance their claim may be genuine, something sharp could puncture a cardboard box and bubblewrap damaging the item inside.

soolin

Basically you need to accept the return, eBay expect you to provide a return label but there should be an option to select that you can't do so and you'll arrange return postage with the buyer.

With foreign returns it is often cheaper to allow ebay to send a label , there is also the advantage that if buyer doesn't use the label then seller wins the case and is not charged for the label either.

antispam246

Appreciate the advice. Sadly it would seem it is all doom and gloom after all.


Their feedback is solid other than the neg left, which partly swayed me to complete sale, I do a lot of overseas selling as it's a fairly lucrative market and I always ensure I'm as covered as well as possible just in cases like this I guess there's really nothing to protect you.


So to clarify there's zero argument with "No returns"? I've heard it before but until it actually happens to you... it's still unbelievable.


I'm still miffed about the verdict of return postage, I know I can argue the toss and prolong the inevitable but I guess there really is no other option?


In the event the item returns in even worse condition as probably occurs because I'm willing to bet he won't package it as well as myself, is there anything there to protect/cover me? I feel the answer is no.


You'd think the onus would be on him to prove the damage, considering he's conveniently disposed of the packaging after reporting the damage 2 weeks after arrival. To reiterate, there is no reasonable excuse to explain the damage to the contents but can't prove it either way now.



Honestly, the whole thing is bloody joke. System is a complete joke, I guess when it's good and works you tend to forget.


Anyone know of a cheap/effective/discrete serialization method for non-distinguishable items? Literally the last thing I can think of that may cover incidents of this nature.

custardy

You say the onus should be on them to prove damage.
However step back. Most buyers want their item as they ordered.
So for a policy,it makes sense to assume the buyer is telling the truth.

ballisticbrian

Anyone know of a cheap/effective/discrete serialization method for non-distinguishable items

It's not my field really but as a CD collector I know there used to be pressings of CDs in the UK and pressings somewhere on the continent which made the code around the centre of the CD different. I don't know if something similar exists for DVD / Blue Ray. This was a while back though.

GabbaGabbaHey

antispam246 wrote: »

So to clarify there's zero argument with "No returns"? I've heard it before but until it actually happens to you... it's still unbelievable.

"No returns" means that you will not accept Change Of Mind returns.

In this case, the buyer is claiming that the item is Not As Described, so "No returns" does not apply.

theonlywayisup

antispam246 wrote: »

Their feedback is solid other than the neg left, which partly swayed me to complete sale, I do a lot of overseas selling as it's a fairly lucrative market and I always ensure I'm as covered as well as possible just in cases like this I guess there's really nothing to protect you.

If he is only a buyer on this account then he can only ever receive positive feedback.

antispam246 wrote: »

So to clarify there's zero argument with "No returns"? I've heard it before but until it actually happens to you... it's still unbelievable.

As has been explained, no returns is pointless as all it tends to do is allow those that are determined to try before they buy, is to return through SNAD, usually damaging an item to facilitate this.

antispam246 wrote: »

I'm still miffed about the verdict of return postage, I know I can argue the toss and prolong the inevitable but I guess there really is no other option?

No other option. Put yourself in the buyer's shoes, would you want to fund a return if an item came damaged?

antispam246 wrote: »

In the event the item returns in even worse condition as probably occurs because I'm willing to bet he won't package it as well as myself, is there anything there to protect/cover me? I feel the answer is no.

You will need to check the item on return, refund and then appeal to eBay. No-one can tell you which way eBay will go on the appeal.

antispam246 wrote: »

You'd think the onus would be on him to prove the damage, considering he's conveniently disposed of the packaging after reporting the damage 2 weeks after arrival. To reiterate, there is no reasonable excuse to explain the damage to the contents but can't prove it either way now.

Also pointed out in the above replies - it could be the actual buyer didn't take delivery and wasn't there to open until he reported the damage. Either way, he/she has 180 days if they want to open the case on Paypal. If you don't like it, it's probably best not to sell on eBay using Paypal.

antispam246

custardy wrote: »

You say the onus should be on them to prove damage.
However step back. Most buyers want their item as they ordered.
So for a policy,it makes sense to assume the buyer is telling the truth.

Apologies, that was from a more personal outlook based on all the specifics of this particular case, not in general, I get it, in general.

mgdavid

as TLIIMH said back in post #3. there's enough warning signs that experienced sellers would not sell to this buyer. The Blocked Bidders list is there to be used !