Just received Letter of Claim

trotbot

Pedantic is pushing it a little, I merely asked if they were the same, as legal terms can be construed differently based on their wording.
I totally appreciate this is my problem and you guys are trying to assist, but you must also appreciate that this will be the first time many of us have had to deal with such a situation.
I have worked in manufacturing support for 20 yrs and sympathise with you, particularity as you are not being paid to do so. However at no point do I find insulting people requiring assistance as a good method of achieving the goal at hand.
Clearly you have good experience in this field and have helped many people through this pile of crap our government has allowed to happen.
Whether you reply or not is entirely up to you, however I will continue with the thread and ask for a review once I have produced a response to BWLegal.

Redx

neither I nor anyone else insult people, we point out any and all facts including correct use of the forum tools and let them deal with their own problems based on previous threads or current information and advice (so straight talking only)

if you check my rep on the left I have received thousands of thank yous to my posts over 6 years (2 thanks for every post) , same as most of the regulars on here - so my rep says it all , even that Lounesbo member I linked to has now done so and they had a few false starts and thought we were mocking them (which we werent - we were educating them)

its not suitable , sobeit , because nobody here will do this for you, including adding links after multiple searches

its a game of ping pong until B W LEGAL or their client issue an MCOL via Northampton CCBC , so I suggest you concentrate on those 2 issues (LBC and probable MCOL) and not your insecurities or paranoia about anyone who may reply to your thread (I am already regrettting my replies , but not their content, just that I bothered to help free of charge)

you need to develop a much thicker skin if you are going to fight a court case, which is much more complicated and may overwhelm you at times and neither the court nor us will be interested in your issues at home, or your finances , just the facts , the evidence, the law does not take emotion into account

so here is one final link that gives you a lot of what you need to know and to do and why

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5882355/letter-from-bw-legal

if you study it and still find no useful info , then that is not my problem as I wont be giving you ten or twenty to look at (because I run the risk of you slapping me with them) , you can study the PaP oct 2017 yourself and then follow it like a legal beagle would do and the MCOL online website has a wealth of information on the small claims court process, which is in your local county court

trotbot

Thank you for your assistance.

trotbot

So between chasing kids and cooking food I drafted the letter below. It clearly plagiarises the various responses out there however I have excluded some of the legal jargon. Sorry to ask but is this wise? Having read the pre-action protocol I just don't see the value in detailing it at this time. Although the 30 days they have to respond to my requests is interesting (5.2). May be I should hire the same carrier pigeon they used for my letter!

Any thoughts would be appreciated, but understand if you've had enough .

Car keeper’s name
Address

BWLegal
Address

Date

Ref: XXXXXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Letter of Claim dated 13th August 2018 that I received on 25th August 2018.
The letter does not contain sufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any evidence relied upon by your client. Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with. I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

• An explanation of the cause of action.
• Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper.
• Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012.
• What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated.
• Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, provide a copy of that contract.
• A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1
• A plan showing where any signs were displayed on that day.
• Details of the signs displayed on that day including - Size of signs, size of font, height at which displayed and lighting to ensure visibility at night time.
• Details of the additions to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

I would also like an explanation of why a Letter of Claim dated 13th August 2018 took 12 days to arrive when protocol states it should be posted on the day it is dated or, if that is not reasonably possible, the following day. If this letter was in fact posted on the 13th or 14th August 2018 please provide proof of postage. The letter of claim arriving on the 25th of August 2018 has greatly reduced the 30 days I am entitled to write my response.

Until you and your client comply with its obligations I am unable to respond to the alleged claim.

Yours faithfully,

Car keeper’s name

Redx

looks ok to my legally untrained eye , but because you have removed sections that you are unsure about, we cannot comment on what is not there

what you should have done , and still need to do , is add them back in using a different colour font (not red) and italicise them or similar , then ask the question - in or out ?


or add them in as proposed draft number 2) and make the above proposed draft number 1)


also ask for any comments , additions or subtractions to be done in red or in a short reply after the proposed draft

that way, it gets honed from a rough draft to perfect once a few minds have looked at it

so a good start, now lets see what you are unsure about so we can comment

trotbot

Sorry I assumed much of the legal jargon has been regurgitated so many time it would be common knowledge and that any edits would be automatically highlighted. My bad.

So between LoadsofChildren123's and Daniel San's (Wax on, wax off!! ) templates I have excluded the following:


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information "until this gets to court" [or whatever they said].

and

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.

Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Redx

ok, now you have said what was omitted and where it comes from, its worth me telling you that those 2 templates are 2017 templates and getting old in the tooth and also its been almost a year since the new PaP came into force so I am not surprised that you left out some of the stuff contained in those outdated reference LBC rebuttals (I saw that CM removed some of it in another recent LBC reply)

I cannot hone your proposed template but suggest you wait and see if anyone suitably qualified now helps with their red pencil

if they do, then maybe YOUR final proposed draft / template will become linked in the NEWBIES thread as a suitable 2018 example ?

good luck


ps:- you will find that any proposed defence and WS in the future will also be honed in a similar fashion same as in other threads (as are POPLA appeals in other threads too)

trotbot

Cool thank you and yes as I read further the extra legal jargon seemed less relevant. A reference to the protocol seems reasonable enough....
I guess we will see.

Coupon-mad

That reply is fine, and the case will go to a claim anyway so don't waste too much time on this stage. More important to read other claim threads so you can see what happens and how they are won, time and again!

trotbot

Aye Coupon-mad, it does seem they intend to take it to claim. Plenty more reading ahead, just that time is not a friend. Not that im asking for assistance!

I was actually at the car park in question yesterday and again I just cant see how they can claim the signage is adequate. It was broad day light and I could hardly see the signs. When the alleged offence took place it was a dark winter evening.