ParkingEye

Baball

Hi all,

I have received a PCN as my car was recorded driving into a car park and leaving less than 15 minutes later. No parking was paid for as the occupants decided not to visit the attraction. It took some time to park, discuss what to do, plan their next destination, get their young child back into the car and depart again.

1) Given the circumstances, do you recommend I appeal?
2) If yes, should I bother to embellish the initial appeal to PE with the specific circumstances? Another forum user had their ticket cancelled at that stage with very similar circumstances.
3) Two vehicles were travelling together so both keepers have received PCNs - can the same appeal content safely be used for both appeals as the circumstances were identical?

Cheers

KeithP

Send the blue text appeal from the first post in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Send it as the keeper.

Send it unchanged - no additions or changes needed.

That's all there is to it at this stage.

The keeper of the other vehicle should do exactly the same.

Umkomaas

1. Absolutely.

2. Yep, use the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 template. Add a final,paragraph, but be really careful not to identify the driver. If it's worked previously, then why not try again, but take nothing for granted. Hope for the best, expect the worst!

3. Why not. In all likelihood the appeals will go to different appeal handlers. If you have time available (from the PE 28-day appeal window), why not send one off, see how that goes, then adapt the second one if necessary. Any inconsistency (given the identical nature and circumstances of the charges) can ultimately be raised with POPLA

Baball

Well, the appeal to ParkingEye was unsuccessful, no surprises I guess. Time to start drafting the POPLA appeal...

Coupon-mad

POPLA like it if you prove that you went to an alternative site/parked somewhere else, as it proves you did not accept the 'parking contract' and left and went to somewhere else (what evidence might you have, even a corroborating statement from your OH passenger?).

Search the forum for Parkingeye POPLA grace period left alternative

Ralph-y

and ....


write to your MP .......




https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

and slightly longer, the committee stage

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d5550515-cce9-4185-83ec-754dadb7524a

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

and some quotes from the committe stage

"The other area is hospital parking, and I want to single out one company for some pretty shady practices. That is ParkingEye"
" is very clear to me that there is collusion between parking companies and solicitors’ firms—so-called roboclaims companies. "
"They are often set up adjacently and involve the same directors and personnel. Incidentally, the same personnel get involved in the so-called appeals bodies."
"Essentially, it is a money-making enterprise that takes advantage of motorists up and down the country. They operate in a very business-like fashion, which is why I call them roboclaims companies."
"The companies are jamming up parts of our legal system."
“I now pretty much know exactly how the parking companies and in particular the IPC have been running this scam for the past 5 years. Basically both of the appeals processes are a complete and utter sham, (and part of that sham is Gladstones Solicitors itself)”
"The appeals process at Excel/VCS is run by a team of minimum wage office workers with no legal knowledge or experience whatsoever,"
" It is claimed by the head of the appeals service (retired Judge Bryn Holloway) that this is a completely independent fair process, it is not”
"The letter mentions two individuals—Will Hurley and Bryn Holloway—and concludes this is a typical example of the clear collusion between the IPC, their members and the IAS"
"what we can do about roboclaims companies and solicitors firms that profit, often in shady ways"
" the very large amounts of money that can be involved in such scams—a company called Smart Parking was involved in one such scam on my patch"
"tightening up the rules regarding the unfair use of automatic number plate recognition" "BW Legal, regularly issues 10,000 county court judgments a month, and is known to have issued 28,000 in one month"
"They are jamming up our court system, and are often totally unjustified."
" because the lifeblood of trying to extort money from people is having access to their details."

All from Parking (Code of Practice) Bill (First sitting) Hansard





Ralph:cool:

Baball

Coupon-mad wrote: »

POPLA like it if you prove that you went to an alternative site/parked somewhere else, as it proves you did not accept the 'parking contract' and left and went to somewhere else (what evidence might you have, even a corroborating statement from your OH passenger?).

Search the forum for Parkingeye POPLA grace period left alternative

Ah this is interesting, I've not come across this in other threads yet. The vehicle left and went to a nearby town where it was parked for an hour or two (fully paid), annoyingly the driver doesn't have the ticket anymore though. What kind of statement would be considered formal enough?

Also, is using Google maps timeline an option? It shows the vehicle was only briefly in the car park where the PCN was issued, but later stayed for a while in a different car park.

Redx

of course you can use google map evidence to support the view that the driver went elsewhere and so was NOT PARKED for the duration

Coupon-mad

Also, is using Google maps timeline an option? It shows the vehicle was only briefly in the car park where the PCN was issued, but later stayed for a while in a different car park.

100% yes - POPLA love that, plus a letter signed by the passenger giving VRN, time/date and locations, confirming what happened.

Concentrate on deciding not to accept the terms of the CAR PARK, not that you arrived then decided not to use the attraction. This needs to be about the car park terms not being accepted, and proof that you went elsewhere. And that it took 14 minutes because it was the height of the Summer, a very busy beach car park (or whatever) and cars were at a standstill and there were a lack of parking spaces, and then you decided not to stay and never accepted any parking terms, and left as soon as possible, waiting as you had to, for other cars manoeuvring and pedestrians walking around, children with buckets & spades and the fact the exit leads out to a main road with a red traffic light and a queue...etc. (edit to suit!).

Then all the usual POPLA templates from the NEWBIES thread post #3 to make it 12 to 14 pages long, including a screenshot imbedded into the appeal PDF, showing the Google maps proof. And then upload the very long appeal, plus the witness statement from the passenger.

What about having tickets/proof of payment to the alternative attraction or shops you ended up at, instead in another part of town later that afternoon, that shows you moved on with your patronage?

Out of interest - does your Google maps timeline match the minutes the PPC has invented, to the minute? Just wondering.

Baball

Google shows the vehicle was there for around 10 minutes, and then headed off to another town.

Baball

So I'm putting together the POPLA appeal, using the template points and some inspiration from other appeals.

Regarding the planning permission for signs and ANPR cameras, is this point valid where the car park is on private land? Or is planning permission still required?