Why Are The Lazy English Not Picking Our Fruits And Vegetables?

spikyone

sevenhills wrote: »

They interviewed an employer in the construction sector on radio four; he was saying that young people today don't want that type of job.
His youngest worker was 30 years old, he was basically saying that young people these days dont like exercise/hard physical jobs.

You can thank Tony Blair's government for that. His terrible idea that we would be well-served by sending all of our young people to university has created a generation who see that as their only option but still hold onto the notion that being a graduate (regardless of the subject or the quality of their degree) will allow you to walk into a cushy, well-paid desk job. It was an incredibly blinkered viewpoint that, as usual with the left, focused on equalising outcome rather than opportunity, and simultaneously devalued both degrees and vocational courses/apprenticeships.

And of course, it coincided perfectly with the opening up of the EU to eastern European nations and an influx of people who simply wanted a better life and didn't mind getting stuck in and getting their hands dirty, which masked the skills gap that Blair had unwittingly created in the UK.
Now, before anyone blames Brexit for that skills gap being exposed, those eastern European workers were only ever here whilst the good times rolled and many had no particular attachment to the UK. It just offered them the best opportunity at the time and they were always going to leave if the economic balance shifted, either to return home or move to another European nation that offered better opportunities. The skills gap was always going to be exposed, it was just a matter of when that would happen.

This is a mess of our own making, and the only thing that will fix it is substantial reform of how we educate young people. Successive governments failed to fix that particular roof whilst the sun of imported labour was shining.

scaredofdebt

People are lazy, given the choice of £8 an hour picking fruit vs an office job (probably paying more) I think most would choose the latter, if they are able to do so.

Nothing to do with Blair or any other politician, not that I am a fan of Blair!

gycraig_2

Make it pay fairly for the work and people will do it. As long as there's an easier alternative Paying the same they will struggle

spikyone

scaredofdebt wrote: »

People are lazy, given the choice of £8 an hour picking fruit vs an office job (probably paying more) I think most would choose the latter, if they are able to do so.

Nothing to do with Blair or any other politician, not that I am a fan of Blair!

Naive and simplistic. The post I replied to was talking about the construction industry, who have a specific skills shortage. If that were down to laziness, we'd have high unemployment and all industries would struggle to recruit.

It's fairly well accepted that vocational education in the UK has been neglected, and that was particularly the case under the Labour governments from 1997-2010. In 1997, 336,000 students were accepted into university. In 2010, that number was 487,000 - a 45% increase. And the increase was driven by Blair's & Labour's misguided obsession with getting as many young people to university as possible. That was partly an attempt to democratise university admission (a bad idea in its own right) and partly an attempt to close future skills gaps. It was poorly thought out because there was no mechanism to ensure that students followed courses that suited our economic needs, nor was there any thought given to the fact that we would still have jobs that would never require a degree but might require alternative types of education. And now we're in the preposterous position of recruiting graduates to work as prison officers, on £30k salaries, and requiring all police officers to have degrees.

gycraig wrote: »

Make it pay fairly for the work and people will do it. As long as there's an easier alternative Paying the same they will struggle

What is "fair pay"? How much should a fruit picker be paid for the work? And how much are you willing to accept the price of UK fruit increasing? That won't just affect your weekly shopping bill, it will affect our ability to compete in export markets, and potentially the livelihoods of farmers across the UK.

mustiuc

I read 5 pages of "debate" and I need to express my beliefs and opinions.
A lot of nonsense and misunderstanding about eastern european workers. They are fit and able to work "any" field during the summer across europe because this is what they`ve done all their life. 90% of them are from country side. Uneducated, dirty, poor, they are borrowing money from "relatives/loan sharks" to go abroad for a better life. They are not SINGLE! they are leaving their children/family at home to work abroad and many of you have no idea in what kind of conditions they are living; how their houses look like, how are they dressed or what kind of life are they living. I started to read more and more articles about children starting to have mental issues because they`ve been raised and grew by grandparents/relatives and their parents are working abroad for 5-10-15yrs; money don't bring happiness.
Being uneducated and desperate, they fall very easily in "easy money" makers. They don't know their rights, don't know to whom to complain and live with this fear to don't be sacked/sent out because they have no money to come back. This is modern slavery. They force people to work and accept anything because they know, these people have no choice.

I have been to Romania/Bulgaria/(in Poland has been a relative of mine and told me the same story) and I`ve seen how they live. I`ve seen 10yr old girl studying at candle light because her house had no electricity. I`ve seen family of 5 children on TV where the "oldest" one said he gave his food to his sister because she is younger. He was 14-15 at that time. I know people working "cash in hand" during the summer for other people in the village to "save" money for winter when is nothing to work, etc.
This is the reason, when I hear stories about "I am a full time mum"/"I can't work part-time(not even full time) and raise 1-2-3 children in the same time" will make me to scream.

It is never easy to go to another country/leave your home but when you have no choice it need to be done. I came here with 1000pounds and 1 luggage. No friends, no relatives, nobody from my family has been in UK. I was quite lucky to have my mum working in France and gave me money to come here.
I am a nurse, I`ve been working in NHS/Care homes/Nursing. Despite the fact that I am doing my job and looking after people, I`ve been insulted and humiliated so many times(staff/clients/relatives) just because i`m a "bloody immigrant". Nothing else. When I`m doing my job properly no1 give a monkey, when I forget to sign a date or thick a box I am nearly safeguarded and supervised. The level of racism in some cities/sectors is HUGE! people are trying to lie themselves saying "oh no, is not so bad". It is, ask any "bloody immigrant" about his feelings.

This immigration problem COULD be sorted very very easily without problems. They have all the info, they have the tools needed. They could check everyone's NINo/details and made them a visit. They could say: "You are in UK for more than 1 year. No Nino contributions, no employment, nothing. OUT! You are a rat for this society, we don't need you. we have ours, no place for you". "Have you done a burglary, have you tried to rape someone? OUT!" and so on. Easy and clean society.

I am not complaining. I am not trying to achieve nothing with this, I don't need sympathy or something else because I became immune to every bad word said towards me/other immigrants.
I don't blame; I tried to not blame anyone in this text because I like here, is better than my home country, I am a good citizen paying my bills/taxes and never been involved in any offence/criminal activity. I might be considered by some "the perfect immigrant" but what my eyes have seen....

A lot of people nowadays are working only for money. They make money and go. no duty of care, no responsability at work,nothing good for the society; just acting like "mercenaries".Getting paid and go on.

This is a relief for me... I never spoke with anyone (except my partner) about this. I am sorry

phillw

mustiuc wrote: »

This immigration problem COULD be sorted very very easily without problems.

Not really, there is an endemic xenophobia in england that has been festering for years.

A lot of people just don't want any immigrants at all, whether they are earning £8 an hour or £800 an hour. No matter how much they are contributing, immigrants make british people angry.

Sapphire

mustiuc wrote: »

I read 5 pages of "debate" and I need to express my beliefs and opinions.

I have been to Romania/Bulgaria/(in Poland has been a relative of mine and told me the same story) and I`ve seen how they live. I`ve seen 10yr old girl studying at candle light because her house had no electricity. I`ve seen family of 5 children on TV where the "oldest" one said he gave his food to his sister because she is younger. He was 14-15 at that time. I know people working "cash in hand" during the summer for other people in the village to "save" money for winter when is nothing to work, etc.
This is the reason, when I hear stories about "I am a full time mum"/"I can't work part-time(not even full time) and raise 1-2-3 children in the same time" will make me to scream.

It is never easy to go to another country/leave your home but when you have no choice it need to be done. I came here with 1000pounds and 1 luggage. No friends, no relatives, nobody from my family has been in UK. I was quite lucky to have my mum working in France and gave me money to come here.

Funny that – my parents, grandparents and great-grandmother came to this country as political exiles after the Second World War. They lost everything material, plus members of their families. Yet despite the terrible trauma of the war, and being as poor as church mice when they came here (though coming from backgrounds that had been affluent), they never complained and just got on with it, including learning the language and studying. Many English people lived in equally poor conditions at that time, and also just got on with it, without nearly the sorts of benefits that people accrue today. For your information, there was no central heating and no hot water, even, in the tiny place where my family lived. None of us was subjected to the sort of prejudice you allege occurs in this country today, and we had many English friends.

I guess roll on automation of fruit picking.

Sapphire

phillw wrote: »

Not really, there is an endemic xenophobia in england that has been festering for years.

A lot of people just don't want any immigrants at all, whether they are earning £8 an hour or £800 an hour. No matter how much they are contributing, immigrants make british people angry.

Certainly not all British people. I do, however, think many people are deeply uneasy about the massive inflow of of people from other countries, which has increased, not decreased, over the last few years. They were fine about it when smaller amounts arrived, but whole areas have now been changed unrecognisably due to mass immigration, without seemingly any controls (nice for property developers and speculators, and for the ever lower wage economy benefitting big business and the like). Such feelings are only likely to worsen, no matter what anyone says.

phillw

Sapphire wrote: »

Certainly not all British people.

No, but they keep going on about it being the will of the people. Even if it's only slightly more than half. They can't have it both ways.

Sapphire wrote: »

They were fine about it when smaller amounts arrived, but whole areas have now been changed unrecognisably due to mass immigration,

I didn't realise it was a human right for things to remain recognisable. Even in areas that haven't had mass immigration you see change that over someones lifetime makes it unrecognisable. Isn't trying to live in the past a problem?

The areas that have had the worst integration problems are not from the EU, so freedom of movement was never the issue but political asylum. It's unlikely that "illegal" immigration will decrease. The biggest obstacle to integration is xenophobia.

Sapphire wrote: »

without seemingly any controls (nice for property developers and speculators, and for the ever lower wage economy benefitting big business and the like). Such feelings are only likely to worsen, no matter what anyone says.

Why are you blaming immigrants for wage squeezing when it's obviously the uk governments fault? And we've just handed them complete power to finish the job. With the positive contribution immigrants make to the economy, they have helped wage growth. Just not enough to overcome May/Johnson/Reese Mogg