BW Legal - LBC?

rsturbomad

Hello all,

I have read read through the heaps of info on this board and it has been very useful. You people do a fantastic job helping us all out. I have a few questions and would like to apologise in advance if this has been answered before but I haven't been able to find the answers so far. Furthermore I have some example letters which you all may find useful.

Specifics
I received PCN last year 11/17 from NCP for parking without payment... I didn't actually park nor leave the vehicle as I was picking up my better half and her friend. This is an activity I have done a fair few times however...I was completely oblivious to the recently fitted ANPR camera which snapped me on entrance and exit. :mad: (however no proof of actual parking)

I was infuriated when the cowboys from NCP sent threatening letters demanding £60 with and increase to £100 if I didn't cough up soon! This was completely out of proportion to the time I was in the carpark (around 10mins if I remember rightly) so I did a little research at the time and chose not to respond. I would have happily paid up if it was reasonable. Moreover I frequently use this car park and have a lot of proof of payment. Just want to be clear I am not the kind of person who just racks up PCN's for the laugh - I'll happily pay my way if I am actually parking my car.

Since then I have received multiple letters from NCP, TRACE, Gladstones & now after a fair amount of time.. BW Legal. Below are the letters I received this month - may be worth mentioning that both letters were posted in the same envelope: -
==========================================================================
NCP

Your account has been passed to our legal team

Date:
Account Reference:
Outstanding Balance: £ 160,00
Dear *****
As you have failed to make arrangements to pay your account Balance to ourselves (NCP) or to our debt collection provider TRACE Debt Recovery UK Limited, your account has now been sent to BW Legal, who are our approved legal service provider.

They will contact you regarding payment of the outstanding Balance. All future contact and correspondence relating to this debt should now be referred to them with immediate effect.
You must call them on 0113 323 4479 — they’ll be able to help you.

Their address is:
3W Legal
Enterprise House
Apex View
Leeds
LSI1 9BH
Telephone Number: 0113 323 4479
Web Address:

[FONT=&quot]If you have any questions about this letter or your outstanding Balance, please call BW Legal on the number shown above.
==========================================================================================
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]BW Legal
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our Client: National Car Parks Limited Date of Contravention: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Account Number: Balance Due: £160.00[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vehicle Registration:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Contravention Description: Parked without payment of the parking charge[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Contravention Location:
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We have been [/FONT][FONT=&quot]instructed by National Car Parks Limited [/FONT][FONT=&quot](NCP) and TRACE Debt [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Recovery UK Limited [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in relation [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Balance Due for the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN”).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Balance Due of £160.00 includes the PCN charge plus Our Client’s initial legal costs of £60.00, which are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]detailed in the car park or signage terms and conditions, Our Client’s terms and conditions are clearly displayed in our client signage.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As you have failed to make a payment or raise an appeal within 28 days from the date of the PCN, the Balance Due remains outstanding and we require payment in full within 16 days from the date of this letter, If you fail to make payment or provide reasons for non-payment within the specified timeframe, we will seek Our Client’s instructions to commence legal proceedings against you in the County Court upon being served with a Letter of Claim pursuant to the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims as contained within the Civil Procedure Rules.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]County Court Proceedings[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the event County Court proceedings are [/FONT][FONT=&quot]issued, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]you [/FONT][FONT=&quot]may [/FONT][FONT=&quot]be liable for Court fees, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]further solicitors’ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]costs and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]statutory interest. If Our Client successfully [/FONT][FONT=&quot]obtains a County Court [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Judgment (“CCJ”) against you, then a CCJ may [/FONT][FONT=&quot]be recorded on [/FONT][FONT=&quot]your [/FONT][FONT=&quot]credit file for 6 years unless you satisfy the CCJ in full [/FONT][FONT=&quot]within [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a month [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]CCJ being[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]entered. A CCJ on your credit file [/FONT][FONT=&quot]may affect your [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ability to obtain future credit and may affect your[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]employability. Our Client also reserves [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the right to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]commence enforcement proceedings against you for recovery of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Balance Due.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What do you need to do next[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is important [/FONT][FONT=&quot]you [/FONT][FONT=&quot]contact us to resolve your account. We are keen to work with you and one of the quickest ways to review your account is to register on our [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Customer Portal [/FONT][FONT=&quot]by visiting . Through our [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Customer Portal, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]you can make a payment, advise us of any disputes against the PCN, upload documentation to support your dispute and communicate with us via web chat.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Call us today on 0113 323 4479[/FONT][FONT=&quot]if you would prefer to discuss your account with one of our helpful team.
==========================================================================
[/FONT]
Questions

1. I have had trouble finding examples of LBC's. Is this letter from BW an LBC?
2. Should I respond robustly now or should I wait?
3. Gladstones then BW..do G'stones know something that BW don't?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Turbo

Umkomaas

Questions
1. I have had trouble finding examples of LBC's. Is this letter from BW an LBC?
2. Should I respond robustly now or should I wait?
3. Gladstones then BW..do G'stones know something that BW don't?

1. If it threatens court you should be treating potentially as one. But it does need to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Collection (PAP) so read up on that and in your robust response (examples linked in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2) require them to provide you with every bit of information to which you are entitled.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

2. Once you got your head round how to do it properly - don't knee-jerk this.

3. BWL seem to have lost 2 of their major 'customers' and appear to be touting their 'service' around the bottom-feeders, or those not previously pursuing litigation, in PPC-world.

So you have NCP, Gladstones, Trace and now BWL handling your personal data. Time to give them all a shock to their systems and drop a SAR-bomb on each of them. Fully loaded and let it explode on their desks! That should nicely tie them up for a while! Here's some background and advice:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5849784/june-2018-start-of-the-new-ppc-and-dvla-fightback-gdpr-related

rsturbomad

Many tanks for your quick response. I shall have a read and start prepping my letter.

Umkomaas

Many tanks for your quick response

I know I said 'SAR-bomb', but that's taking things a bit too literally! :rotfl:

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

rsturbomad

Umkomaas wrote: »

I know I said 'SAR-bomb', but that's taking things a bit too literally! :rotfl:

Haha - I meant to do that...honest.

Been reading through the SAR / GDPR stuff and it suddenly dawned on me..I no longer own the vehicle. Does that complicate the SAR request at all?

I have the majority of my letter wrote and wondered is it worth mentioning the specifics? More so the fact that I didn't park / leave the vehicle.

Cheers
Turbo

Umkomaas

Been reading through the SAR / GDPR stuff and it suddenly dawned on me..I no longer own the vehicle. Does that complicate the SAR request at all?

It's not so much about the car details it's about what personal data they hold and have dealt with about you, not your car.

Whatever the situation is with the car, the PPC wouldn't know its current ownership, so I wouldn't worry about that.

rsturbomad

Hello All,
I recently received the LOC on 22nd (dated 16th) from BWL. No acknowledgement of my response and SAR request though. Probably a robot at work here: -

LETTER OF CLAIM
Our Client: National Car Parks Limited Date of Contravention:
Account Number: Balance Due: £160.00
Vehicle Registration: REG
Contravention Description: Parked without payment of the parking charge Contravention Location:
We have been instructed by National Car Parks Limited to commence legal action in the form of issuing a Claim against you in the County Court in respect ofthe above debt. If payment or a response is not received before 20 September 2018, we are instructed to issue a Claim against you in the County Court without further notice. If you dispute this debt, please tell us why so that we can help resolve this matter.
Estimated Claim Such legal action may result in you being liable for court fees, solicitors’ costs and statutory interest which are estimated below.
Enclosures
Enclosed with this letter are:
.Information Sheet: a sheet explaining what to do next, including how to avoid Court action.
.Reply form: a form to complete and return containing four sections.
.Income and Expenditure Form: a form to complete and return to outline your fmancial circumstances.
Principal Debt + Initial Legal Costs £160.00
Estimated Interest £10.06
Estimated Court Fees £25.00
Estimated Solicitors’ Costs £50.00
Estimated Total £245.06
What You Need To Do Now Payment of £160.00 or your reasons for non payment are required by 20 September 2018 to avoid the above legal action. Ifyou are unable to pay the Balance in full, Our Client is willing to enter into a payment arrangement which is affordable for you taking into account your financial circumstances.
How to Get In Touch
Online Manage your account at (website). You can complete the Reply Form and your income and expenditure online, make a payment, set up an affordable payment arrangement and speak to us by webchat.
• Speak to us or email us Call us today on 0113 323 4479 or email us at contact(a bwIeaI.co.iik to discuss this matter with one of our helpful team. • By post Complete and return the attached Reply Form to us at the address at the foot ofthis letter by 20 September 2018.
Pre-Action Protocol For Debt Claims This letter is being sent to you in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims, a link to which is contained on the foot of the enclosed information sheet. In particular, we refer you to paragraph 7, which sets out the expectations ofthe court in terms of complying with the Protocol.
Particulars of Debt On 2 November 2017, you were granted a limited contractual licence to enter the land known as (“Site”), which is managed and operated by Our Client. In return, you were to abide by certain terms and conditions (“Terms and Conditions”) which were prominently displayed on the signage erected in situ by Our Client. On 2 November 2017, you breached the Terms and Conditions by Parked without payment ofthe parking charge (“Breach”). The Breach resulted in Our Client issuing a Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) on 02/11/2017 which, despite our client’s attempts to engage with you and agree a suitable payment arrangement, remains unpaid.
Statement of Account The following summary statement shows the transactions applied to your account since the PCN was issued by Our Client:
Principal Balance £160.00
Total Payments £0.00
Total Adjustments £0.00
Total Interest £0.00
Total Debt Recovery Costs £0.00
Curremt Balance £160.00
Our Client’s entitlement to the total Debt Recovery Costs referred to in the table above is expressed in the Terms and Conditions, which you accepted upon entering the Site. Such costs are recoverable in any event under the relevant Parking Code(s) ofPractice.
Warning of Court Proceedings Ifpayment or a response is not received from you by 20 September 2018 we are instructed to issue a County Court Claim without further reference to you, together with applying the interest, fees and costs highlighted on the previous page.
If payment or a response is not received following a County Court Claim, a County Court Judgment (“CCJ”) may be entered against you. If a CCI were to be entered, it would be recorded on your credit file for 6 years unless you pay the Judgment debt in full within a month ofthe CCJ being entered. A CCJ on your credit file may affect your ability to obtain future credit.
If a CCJ were to be entered and you were to fail to comply with the CCI order, we may apply to the County Court to take further enforcement action which you would be notified of separately.
We Look Forward To Hearing From You Our helpful team would like to work with you to reach a solution without the need for Court proceedings to be issued and it is therefore important that you get in touch before 20 September 2018.
Yours faithfully
==========================================================================================================================================================

I then received a response shortly after again with no acknowledgement of the SAR I also requested: -

Dear
Our Client: National Car Parks Limited
Account Number:
Balance: £160.00 (“the Balance”)
We write with reference to the above matter. We note your recent correspondence alludes to your reasons for disputing Our Client’s Parking Charge Notice (PCN). We have set out Our Client’s position below in response to your correspondence.
1. Our Client’s cause of action is that you breached the Terms and Conditions ofthe contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park, by parking your vehicle, without payment ofthe parking tariff.
2. Our Client is pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle. (NOTE NO EVIDENCE PROVIDED)
3. Our Client does intend to rely on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
4. The details ofthe claim are that parking your vehicle, without payment ofthe parking tariff.
5. The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which you have been issued with is for a breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the Terms and Conditions which apply. It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.
6. This is not a claim for trespass.
7. Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.
8. Our Client is under no obligation to supply this.
9. As established members of the Independent Parking Community, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks (‘Code of Practice’). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the Car Park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.
10. [100.00] remains unpaid for the Parking Charge Notice. furthermore, our legal fees of [£60.00] are reasonable for a professional law firm dealing in this type of legal work and payment of such fees was detailed in the Terms and Conditions located within the Car Park.
11. This will be issued in due course.
What to do next Our Client is willing to resolve matters with you on an amicable basis, however, this is contingent on you making immediate arrangements to repay the Outstanding Balance Due within 14 days.
If you cannot afford to pay the Outstanding Balance within 14 days don’t worry, Our Client may be willing to accept repayments ofthe Outstanding Balance at an affordable rate each month. It is important that you call us before the 14 day period expires to discuss the options available to you.
We are here to assist you, however, if you have not taken any of the action above before the deadline expires, we are instructed to continue with the legal recoveries process which make include the prospect of bring County Court proceedings against you (if such action has not already been taken) to recover the outstanding balance.
How to make payment One of the quickest ways you can review your account is to register on our Customer Portal by visiting (website)on here, you can make payment or, alternatively, to propose a repayment plan in respect of the outstanding amount.
Alternative, please call us today on 0113 323 4479 ifyou would prefer to discuss your account with one of our helpful team. We also accept payment by a variety of methods which are specified overleaf.
If you are in any doubt about the content of this letter and/or require guidance/assistance on clearing the balance due to financial difficulties, we would advise you to seek free advice, on the reverse of this letter is a list of some free Debt Management Companies that are available to help, alternatively you can obtain legal advice from a Solicitor.
Yours sincerely

==============================================================================================================================================

Your thoughts and advice are muchly appreciated.

Turbo

KeithP

Guidance on how to respond to a Letter of Claim, aka Letter Before Claim, is available in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Coupon-mad

I'd reply how ever you want, I'd be saying:

- you are not here to 'assist me' and there is no debt.

- I require your client to show that debt recovery costs were actually expended:

Our Client’s entitlement to the total Debt Recovery Costs referred to in the table above is expressed in the Terms and Conditions, which you accepted upon entering the Site. Such costs are recoverable in any event under the relevant Parking Code(s) ofPractice.

System

You ask for a copy of the contract which meant the signs on which they will rely. Did they send them?

Is there something wrong with the template being used?

You say no response to SAR(?) They have 30 days. Have they failed?