BW Legal - LBC?

Coupon-mad

Is there something wrong with the template being used?

Too old now, IMHO, talks about the 1st October changes. And people just copy the whole thing regardless of if they already have half the stuff listed.

rsturbomad

KeithP wrote: »

Guidance on how to respond to a Letter of Claim, aka Letter Before Claim, is available in post #2

Cheers Keith I have today seen the second response Coupon put together.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I'd reply how ever you want, I'd be saying:

- don't patronise me, you are not here to 'assist me' and there is no debt.

- I require your client to show that debt recovery costs were actually expended:

Cheers Coupon - I shall look to adopt the example second response you have previously put together.

IamEmanresu wrote: »

You ask for a copy of the contract which meant the signs on which they will rely. Did they send them?

Nope they said "our client is under no obligation to supply this"

You say no response to SAR(?) They have 30 days. Have they failed?

It hasn't been 30 days yet its just the fact they haven't acknowledged the SAR which I sent in the same letter.

Cheers again everyone, I have a few Q's: -

1. Should they provide the information I have asked for before they begin the claim? The reason I ask is they are still persistent on trying to scare me with setting deadlines:

"What to do next Our Client is willing to resolve matters with you on an amicable basis, however, this is contingent on you making immediate arrangements to repay the Outstanding Balance Due within 14 days"

This frustrates the hell out of me :mad:

2. In the response they sent they have mentioned the following :

"We note your recent correspondence alludes to your reasons for disputing Our Client’s Parking Charge Notice (PCN)."

Should I mention that I did not actually park?

3. Should I chase for evidence?

Many thanks all
Turbo

KeithP

rsturbomad wrote: »

IamEmanresu wrote: »

You ask for a copy of the contract which meant the signs on which they will rely. Did they send them?

Nope they said "our client is under no obligation to supply this"

The 'contract' that IamEmanresu is referring to is that between the driver and the PPC, i.e. the signs.
They need send pictures of the signs.

The contract that they are referring to, and which they refuse to supply, is the one between themselves and the landowner.

rsturbomad

Thanks Keith.

Thinking about the second response and being new to this so forgive me if i'm wrong but..Given the fact that they haven't provided adequate information / evidence; and the fact they haven't acknowledged or provided the info they have regarding my personal data (response to the SAR)..... Should I bother replying until they have done? ...My thoughts are :think::...their initial responses aren't the best and don't provide the info set out by the pre-action protocol....therefore if this was to go to court would work to my advantage...?

I realize I didn't post my LBC with SAR so here it is:-

======================================================================

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of claim dated <DATE> reference: <REF>.

Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your clients places reliance upon.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your clients to provide. Your clients must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your clients) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your clients, are immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20); Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Furthermore I am writing to your company - BW Legal and clients National Car Parks Limited (NCP), TRACE Debt Recovery UK Limited, in capacity of Data Protection. I have reason to believe you hold personal data on myself as a vehicle I owned and were the registered keeper for visits to car parking sites managed by your client. It should be noted that contrary to article 13 of GDPR legislation no privacy information was provided to myself, the data subject, at the time of collection. I am therefore compelled into making this request for access to personal data pursuant to Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation. which, as you will be aware, came into force on 25 May 2018

I would like you to be aware at the outset, that I anticipate a reply to my request within one month as required under Article 12, failing which I will be forwarding my inquiry with a letter of complaint to the Information Commissioners Office (ICO).

Please advise as to the following:
1. Please confirm to me whether or not my personal data is being processed. If it is, please provide me with the categories of personal data you have about me in your files and databases.
1.a. In particular, please tell me what you know about me in your information systems, whether or not contained in databases, and including e-mail, documents on your networks, or voice or other media that you may store.
1.b. Additionally, please advise me in which countries my personal data is stored, or accessible from. In case you make use of cloud services to store or process my data, please include the countries in which the servers are located where my data are or were (in the past 12 months) stored.
1.c. Please provide me with a copy of, or access to, my personal data that you have or are processing.
2. Please provide me with a detailed accounting of the specific uses and lawful basis that you have made, are making or will be making of my personal data.
3. Please provide a list of all third parties with whom you have (or may have) shared my personal data.
3.a. If you cannot identify with certainty the specific third parties to whom you have disclosed my personal data, please provide a list of third parties to whom you may have disclosed my personal data.
3.b. Please also identify which jurisdictions that you have identified above that these third parties with whom you have or may have shared my personal data, from which these third parties have stored or can access my personal data. Please also provide insight in the legal grounds for transferring my personal data to these jurisdictions. Where you have done so, or are doing so, on the basis of appropriate safeguards, please provide a copy.
3.c Additionally, I would like to know what safeguards have been put in place in relation to these third parties that you have identified in relation to the transfer of my personal data.
4. Please advise how long you store my personal data, and if retention is based upon the category of personal data, please identify how long each category is retained.
5. If you are additionally collecting personal data about me from any source other than me, please provide me with all information about their source, as referred to in Article 14 of the GDPR.
6. If you are making automated decisions about me, including profiling, whether or not on the basis of Article 22 of the GDPR, please provide me with information concerning the basis for the logic in making such automated decisions, and the significance and consequences of such processing.



======================================================================

Cheers
Turbo

beamerguy

We await their reply.

They clearly dd not understand the new protocol
Sheer incompetence comes to mind.

I feel sorry for NCP BUT ONLY because they are involved
with BWLegal, it's going to be another Excel type trashing

Coupon-mad

or provided the info they have regarding my personal data (response to the SAR).

If they are past the SAR deadline, complain to the ICO like spook104 did:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74722193#Comment_74722193

B789

Interestingly, in the letter from BWL, they appear to be using one of their usual, unchecked templates. Item #9 states:

9. As established members of the Independent Parking Community, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks (‘Code of Practice’). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the Car Park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.

I thought NCP were members of the BPA. Not sure exactly how you would use this but it may certainly be worthwhile pointing out this use of template roboclaim with fundamental errors is a waste of court time should it ever actually get in front of a judge.

beamerguy

B789 wrote: »

Interestingly, in the letter from BWL, they appear to be using one of their usual, unchecked templates. Item #9 states:

As established members of the Independent Parking Community

I thought NCP were members of the BPA. Not sure exactly how you would use this but it may certainly be worthwhile pointing out this use of template roboclaim with fundamental errors is a waste of court time should it ever actually get in front of a judge.

UNREAL .... worth pointing out to a judge and asking how
reliable their evidence really is

I do think the courts are well aware of their incompetence

rsturbomad

Many thanks all,

beamerguy wrote: »

We await their reply.

They clearly dd not understand the new protocol
Sheer incompetence comes to mind.

I feel sorry for NCP BUT ONLY because they are involved
with BWLegal, it's going to be another Excel type trashing

Cool shall hang fire for now. If they go ahead with the claim the next letter I should receive will be from the county court. Is that right?

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If they are past the SAR deadline, complain to the ICO like spook104 did:

Cheers Coupon - not passed the deadline yet.

Coupon-mad

Yes if they proceed, you will receive a claim form.