Gumtree PayPal - Am I covered as a buyer?

sebsy

Hi,

Quick question. I've messaged a seller on ebay for an item listed at £800 and he let me know he also has it listed on Gumtree and that he could do a better deal if bought from there due to not having ebay seller fees. As I understand it ebay fees are 10% so he would lose £80 just to that plus any other fees, where as through Gumtree I could pay say £30 less, and he would save the extra £50 from not selling through ebay.

I just want to be sure I'm safe buying with PayPal through Gumtree.

I have found this: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Buying-with-PayPal/Buying-with-PayPal-on-Gumtree/td-p/87246

Which suggests I am totally covered if I follow those steps, but it's from 8 years ago and I dont know if things are any different to that info now.

These parts specifically:

"Assuming you're a uk registered account holder, and you pay an invoice for goods, or you use send money from within your paypal account, then select "goods" as the reason for the payment, then you'll have the same protection you would have if you'd bought on ebay, including protection against the laptop not being as described"

and

"All PP payments are covered providing you as the account holder have a UK registered PayPal account, and you are making a payment for goods!
Ask your seller send you an invoice from within PayPal stating the payment is for goods, you should only ever pay one whole lump sum and not a deposit or installments as those are not covered by PP."

As I understand it, the sellers are more opened to getting scammed, and it is the seller who let me know the item was also on Gumtree and he seems legit from our messages so far.

Just want to be totally sure. If so, it saves me money, and also him, which is great.

soolin

There are three points here to note, firstly yes, as long as you pay for named goods on PayPal you are covered. Just make sure you don't pay a blank invoice or pay by friends and family.

Secondly, the only disadvantage of not using eBay is that it could limit your ability to do a simple SNAD claim, as if you needed to do so you would have to return the item tracked at your own expense. If it was on eBay then they would expect seller to pay for return.

Lastly, expect your eBay account to be limited or suspended under the new rules. Any messages going through eBay intimating that an off eBay sale is going ahead gets the seller suspended, and usually, depending on your reply, a warning and possible short suspension for the buyer as well.

sebsy

Thanks for the reply.

How high is the risk of actually being reprimanded (either of us)?

I'm guessing ebay doesn't look at every single message that goes between ebay members?

Other than that, I just need to make sure I

1) Pay from with my PayPal account (so put money in there from my bank account first)
2) Select GOODS as the reason for payment
3) Get the seller to send me an invoice from within PayPal stating payment is for Goods
4) Pay in one lump sum

Is that right?

Thanks for the quick reply

soolin

sebsy wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

How high is the risk of actually being reprimanded (either of us)?

I'm guessing ebay doesn't look at every single message that goes between ebay members?

Other than that, I just need to make sure I

1) Pay from with my PayPal account (so put money in there from my bank account first)
2) Select GOODS as the reason for payment
3) Get the seller to send me an invoice from within PayPal stating payment is for Goods
4) Pay in one lump sum

Is that right?

Thanks for the quick reply

The risk of a warning from ebay is surprisingly high, some wording is picked up immediately by ebay bots, other times it takes longer. Your issue will be sharing an email address/paypal ID. Most people especially buyers are not suspended permanently on the first warning, although some sellers claim that the first off ebay sale was enough for a lengthy suspension and limits when they get back to selling. This is such a serious issue now that many sellers won't actually accept questions from buyers in case the bots suspend them first and ask questions later!

There is no need to pre load your paypal account, you are nOT using friends and family so a balance is immaterial. To be safe it might even be better to pay via a card as some banks allow a chargeback in dire cases.

You need to pay for named goods, so state exactly what it is and what you are expecting to make the payment clear as part of a contract.

theonlywayisup

sebsy wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

How high is the risk of actually being reprimanded (either of us)?

I'm guessing ebay doesn't look at every single message that goes between ebay members?

Other than that, I just need to make sure I

1) Pay from with my PayPal account (so put money in there from my bank account first)
2) Select GOODS as the reason for payment
3) Get the seller to send me an invoice from within PayPal stating payment is for Goods
4) Pay in one lump sum

Is that right?

Thanks for the quick reply

In reply to your points above.

1. No, pay with a credit card - some still will help with chargeback should things go wrong. Adding money to Paypal to make a balance in order to pay will remove any hope of that.
2. Yes - named goods or services - get them to explicitly say what the item is (how will you win a SNAD without it?).
3. Yes. - as point 2.
4. Definitely.

As for messages through eBay - every message will be sent via their internal servers where they will have systems in place to pick up fee avoidance. Both seller and buyer are punished if they deem avoidance has been attempted.

You have more to lose than the seller has to gain (returns postage and protection for example). I personally would be paying through eBay. There are caps for fees and without knowing what the item is and if the seller is private or business, it isn't possible to see what £ gain the seller will have from taking the sale elsewhere.

sebsy

soolin wrote: »

The risk of a warning from ebay is surprisingly high, some wording is picked up immediately by ebay bots, other times it takes longer. Your issue will be sharing an email address/paypal ID. Most people especially buyers are not suspended permanently on the first warning, although some sellers claim that the first off ebay sale was enough for a lengthy suspension and limits when they get back to selling. This is such a serious issue now that many sellers won't actually accept questions from buyers in case the bots suspend them first and ask questions later!

There is no need to pre load your paypal account, you are nOT using friends and family so a balance is immaterial. To be safe it might even be better to pay via a card as some banks allow a chargeback in dire cases.

You need to pay for named goods, so state exactly what it is and what you are expecting to make the payment clear as part of a contract.

I guess rather than mentioning an email address in ebay messages I just email him directly through his Gumtree listing.


Thanks again for the help. Pay by CC then, got it. I don't actually have a CC, I have a debit card though, and assume the same applies?

sebsy

theonlywayisup wrote: »

In reply to your points above.

1. No, pay with a credit card - some still will help with chargeback should things go wrong. Adding money to Paypal to make a balance in order to pay will remove any hope of that.
2. Yes - named goods or services - get them to explicitly say what the item is (how will you win a SNAD without it?).
3. Yes. - as point 2.
4. Definitely.

As for messages through eBay - every message will be sent via their internal servers where they will have systems in place to pick up fee avoidance. Both seller and buyer are punished if they deem avoidance has been attempted.

You have more to lose than the seller has to gain (returns postage and protection for example). I personally would be paying through eBay. There are caps for fees and without knowing what the item is and if the seller is private or business, it isn't possible to see what £ gain the seller will have from taking the sale elsewhere.

Glad I asked, was worth doing so with that article being 8 years old.

I guess the points should be switched around, should I get him to send me an invoice from within PayPal as point 1) then I pay him once I have the invoice? That makes sense to me, but as I say I've only ever really bought through ebay, and only sold on Gumtree so want to be sure I'm doing thigs correctly.

So it would be:

1) Seller sends me invoice from within PayPal stating item as GOODS - *what the goods are*

2) Pay through PayPal via my card (it's a Debit Card) all in one lumpsum. Would he need to give me his Acc no and Sort Code?

3) Do this marking items as GOODS - *what the goods are*

Sorry if I'm frustrating anyone, just I've not done this before and really am not used to how it works.

theonlywayisup

sebsy wrote: »

Glad I asked, was worth doing so with that article being 8 years old.

I guess the points should be switched around, should I get him to send me an invoice from within PayPal as point 1) then I pay him once I have the invoice? That makes sense to me, but as I say I've only ever really bought through ebay, and only sold on Gumtree so want to be sure I'm doing thigs correctly.

So it would be:

1) Seller sends me invoice from within PayPal stating item as GOODS - *what the goods are*

2) Pay through PayPal via my card (it's a Debit Card) all in one lumpsum. Would he need to give me his Acc no and Sort Code?

3) Do this marking items as GOODS - *what the goods are*

Sorry if I'm frustrating anyone, just I've not done this before and really am not used to how it works.

Ideally (if not buying via Ebay) then ask him to send you an invoice stating the item and it's condition (noting the gumtree ad would be advantageous).

When you get the invoice you pay it from a linked card on your Paypal account.

You pay all in one lump sum and you don't need any account number or sort code as the invoice is from his email.

You clearly are going to do it this way, but if you have any doubt then do it via eBay you have much more protection. The seller may be giving you a discount but it won't be much on an £800 sale and could be costly if the transaction goes sour.

sebsy

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Ideally (if not buying via Ebay) then ask him to send you an invoice stating the item and it's condition (noting the gumtree ad would be advantageous).

When you get the invoice you pay it from a linked card on your Paypal account.

You pay all in one lump sum and you don't need any account number or sort code as the invoice is from his email.

You clearly are going to do it this way, but if you have any doubt then do it via eBay you have much more protection. The seller may be giving you a discount but it won't be much on an £800 sale and could be costly if the transaction goes sour.

Ok, thanks, I pretty much got it right, just wanted to be sure.

I've asked him to invoice me within PayPal stating named goods and services, putting exactly what the items are and their condition, and also mention the Gumtree ad, so awaiting that.

Now you've quoted me I realise I mentioned the wrong price. It is £700 not £800, but he had a best offer option and we agreed a price of £615. Doing it through Gumtree we figured he'll avoid the 10% ebay fees so around £63 after other small listing fees so I'll only pay £590. I'll save £25 and he'll save about £38.

I have also said through Gumtree if he'd prefer seeing as neither of us are 100% sure what we're doing if he wants to relist through ebay at £615 and just do it through there considering the small (in relation to the overall price) savings, then I'm happy either way.

sebsy

And FWIW, he has said he is happy to do it through ebay, and making no fuss or any effort to push me towards doing it on Gumtree, so I'm more than happy he's legit.



He's been an ebay member for 13 years and has 100% feedback from 67 received as a seller.


I know feedback isn't the be all and end all, but nothing has suggested to me that he is in any way a scammer or anything, it's literally that I just don't know what I'm doing as a buyer through Gumtree and using PayPal that way, where as with ebay I can just clici BUY IT NOW and pay and I'm covered through ebay.

theonlywayisup

Gumtree is geared towards cash and collection. It was never intended to be a paypal/post/collect situation.

Are you collecting this item or is he sending it?