UKPC Parking Charge Issued Office Car Park

IP1103

Thanks Edna for your input.

I've noted from their Payment page that they have a picture of the vehicle so they will be able to get the correct info as soon as they realise they have issued with the incorrect information. there wont be any negative inference on me during the appeal process because i have "appealed" an incorrectly issued ticket.

Also, should i complain to the Freeholder and Managing Agent now or await their response.

Edna_Basher

Even if UKPC were to deliver a perfectly-worded Notice to Keeper within the correct relevant period, they have already failed to comply with Schedule 4 of POFA because they did not issue a Notice to Driver in full compliance with Paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 (i.e. Paragraph 7 (2) (a): The notice must specify the vehicle....).

Thus they have already forfeited any right to claim unpaid parking charges from the vehicle's keeper and have limited the scope of any claim only to the driver.

It is perfectly possible for a vehicle's keeper to "appeal" a windscreen ticket - in fact, that's how I first became embroiled in the murky world of private parking. Five years ago, UKPC issued an unfair windscreen ticket to my teenage son while he was driving a car registered in my name. I "appealed" the ticket as the vehicle's keeper (as was my right) and eventually got the charge cancelled - despite UKPC's worst efforts to obstruct the process.

IP1103

Thanks again Edna.

I tried this morning to log on to their portal and they havent updated it as you still need the Incorrect VRN to login.


Am I right in stating that they they have 28 days from the date the initial 28 days for Notice to Driver Expires (26 August) to issue the Notice to Keeper. in this instance by failing to comply with Schedule 4 paragraph 7 as (as they have not correctly specified the vehicle).

To that end, I am going to 'appeal' as keeper today and see what comes of this. I will use the initial appeal letter and see where this goes.

Re PCN number:

I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

Formal note:

Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point on, must be made by post. Regardless of any MCOL online/email system, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

Yours faithfully,

that should suffice right.

nosferatu1001

No, to issue a valid NtK (which they cannot do) they have to issue so it arrives between day 29 and 56

You cannot appeal a ticket for a car not your own, you would have to make an incorrect statement.

IP1103

In this instance do i just wait it out then? See if they get in contact?

nosferatu1001

Yes, I would do so
Theyc annot issue a compliant NtK. It is imposssible.
this means there cannot be KEEPER liability.

IP1103

Ok. Not an Issue. at some point they will realise their mistake and write to finance company who in turn will direct them to me at which point i will appeal and state that their NtK is non-compliant.

Loadsofchildren123

IP1103 wrote: »

I am preparing the appeal to UKPC - would it be worthwhile adding that as an employee of a tenant with a long Lease (125 Years) we have a legal right to park in one of 5 spaces there is no mention of requiring parking permits etc is set out within the lease. UKPC have been 'employed' after the date of the lease and having spoken to my employer they were not approached by Savils as Managing Agents to seek their input on implementing the parking permits.

Or should i just stick to the current appeal as set out below and wait until i receive the POPLA code before raising the lease points.

Please look at my Admiral thread.
The landowner (Savills acting on their behalf) have no right to interfere with your employer's pre-existing parking rights, and the parking rights they contractually allowed you to have.
When you were granted the parking rights, was anything signed setting out the T&Cs of your use of the parking? Did you pay for the parking? You were granted parking rights, whether by way of a written contract or an oral contract. The terms of that contract did not include any obligation on you to display a permit. Whilst you were later given a permit, you chose to display it simply out of convenience, not because your were obliged to. The landowner had no right to introduce new terms of parking on your employer, and your employer had no right to impose them on you.
This is a distinct contractual argument. A third party cannot unilaterally interfere with the terms of a contract agreed between you and your employer - in this case the landowner acting via Savills and the PPC.


I don't advise on appeal/POPLA stage, so I'd follow everyone's advice about that, but as soon as that's over (if unsuccessful) I'd start kicking up merry hell about their interference with your parking rights.

Weasel_Watcher

IP1103 wrote: »

Ok. Not an Issue. at some point they will realise their mistake and write to finance company who in turn will direct them to me at which point i will appeal and state that their NtK is non-compliant.

These are the T&Cs for alphabet leasing... [incidently the link is titled "Fines Guide"(!)]

What actions do Alphabet take when they receive a Parking Enforcement Notice
As the ‘registered keeper’ of the vehicle(s) which areleased to our customers and their drivers, charge notices are sent from the enforcement agent directly to Alphabet.

On receipt of a private parking charge (also known as a ‘notice to keeper’, ‘parking charge notice’ or ‘enforcement notice’) Alphabet has the following
options:
—
Make payment of the notice in full
—
Report the vehicle sold or stolen (if applicable)
—
Transfer liability to the customer who is leasing or renting the vehicle on the date/time of the
contravention

Since 1 September 2015, unless Alphabet has been instructed otherwise, on receipt of a parking
enforcement notice we will transfer the liability for the charge to the customer leasing or renting the vehicle from Alphabet at the time that the parking charge was incurred.



The parking enforcement agent will then contact the individual responsible for incurring the charge directly. This provides the opportunity to either appeal or
pay the fine at the lower rate offered by the enforcement agent.

Your responsibility

On receipt of the parking notice which Alphabet have transferred to you, as the driver of the vehicle related to the parking charge, your options are to either make
payment or appeal the charge if appropriate.
Important note:
Should you choose to ignore this notification and Alphabet are contacted with a second notice (often for an increased amount) we will pay the charge and recharge the amount to you
to prevent further escalation. We may charge an administration fee for doing this.
Therefore it is your responsibility to keep Alphabet informed if your address changes, such as when moving home

Re the bit in bold. Can you see the worrying possibility here? If UKPC are aware of this policy, brazenly writing again with an increased charge to Alpabet leasing will surely make it easy pickings for them, whether the leasee has ignored the PCN or not.

IP1103

Thanks.

To clarify, the office sits on a 'prestigious estate' in Birmingham. the freeholder my employer occupies a building which shares a car park with 2/3 other offices. There are some 20-25 parking spaces, my Employers are the long leaseholder of our office. The Lease includes 5 parking spaces.

Over the Christmas break (2017), Savills issued Permits to the owners of the Buildings and in turn my employer as a gesture of goodwill let me have 1 of the 5 permits.

I agree with what you say in respect of unilateral changes/interference with parking rights.

my issue is two fold:

1. they issued the pcn with the incorrect VRN - if i appeal then I am appealing against a ticket for a car that does not exist and i'm curios to know if this will have a negative impact on any future defence.
2. by ignoring it am i making a rod for my own back.

On point 2, I could await a NTK and if it ever arrives, I could pursue an appeal based on the Initial Notice being non-compliant and therefore they have already forfeited any right to claim unpaid parking charges from the vehicle's keeper.