UKPC Parking Charge Issued Office Car Park

IP1103

Hi Guys,

New here - wanted to see if anybody could help or point me in the right direction: looked through the newbie sticky and looked through the existing posts. this situation is an amalgamation of a few different scenarios previously posted here by other users.

Apologies in advance if this feels like its repetitive.

As the Title suggests a Parking Charge (affixed to the Vehicle) from UKPC was issued today. The vehicle was parked in an office car park which is privately owned. The Company who has an office on the estate is a long leaseholder (125 years) and have been issued with 5 parking permits, one of which is in the car that was ticketed. The permit which is the shape and size of a credit card fell off the dashboard and was not visible at the time the ticked was issued.

It is intended to appeal on the basis that there is a valid permit albeit not displayed issued. To complicate matters, the attendant who issued the notice put the wrong Reg Number on the notice so instead of ending with a 'K' he has ended the Reg Number with a 'X'. Would this have a bearing on the validity of the notice. Initial reaction was to contact UKPC and brag that they cocked up the reg on the ticket, but having read the newbie thread this was quickly decided against.

The Car is Leased from Alphabet and the Hire Agreement specifically states that they will either pay in full without notifying me and recharge it to me or provide my details to UKPC that I am the Lessee of the vehicle.

It is intended to utilise the very helpful appeal letter posted in the Newbie thread which has a paragraph confirming that I am the Lessee. The appeal will be lodged on day 26 of the 28 day appeal period . Other than contacting Alphabet to tell them not to do anything other than inform UKPC that I am the Lessee.

One thing that i have noted is a lot of the templates here appeal on the basis of signage size, lettering a lack of clarity etc is it wise to carry on in this vain or should I cut to the chase and tell them that the permit is issued etc but just wasnt visible and that they have no legal authority to issue a ticket for something the company has a legal right to use/owns.

Quentin

The template appeal is designed to get a popla code. It is the only template appeal you will see in the Newbies FAQ thread!

Send it as is

IP1103

Thanks Quentin. I will do that. presumably, if this proceeds further there will be a time where i can bring this to the attention of POPLA - incorrect Reg and Permit.

Quentin

No mileage in the incorrect reg as far as popla goes

Can you wait and see if the lease company gets a ntk? Just in case they really don't know the correct reg and thus cannot contact the keeper?

twhitehousescat

as this is a lease/hire car , you MUST steer , ukpc away from getting details from the DVLA , you need to head them off and get them to correspond with you , as if you were the actual owner

once informed that you are the "keeper" , they should not contact the DVLA

IP1103

If i do as Quentin has suggested and then there is a chance that some numpty at Alphabet will settle the charge in full even if i tell them otherwise.

@Twhitehousecats if i contact alphabet and then notify, by way of appeal, UKPC this should in theory be sufficient in keeping them away from DVLA.

twhitehousescat

IP1103 wrote: »

If i do as Quentin has suggested and then there is a chance that some numpty at Alphabet will settle the charge in full even if i tell them otherwise.

@Twhitehousecats if i contact alphabet and then notify, by way of appeal, UKPC this should in theory be sufficient in keeping them away from DVLA.

alphabet are not a charity , they make more money from sending letters than renting cars



* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (well before day 21 when it's an IPC firm which only 'offers' 21 days to appeal - check the PCN). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA.

You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.

If the hire/lease co gets a postal PCN and names you as the driver/hirer, that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).

Here are some examples of a successful first appeal. These examples relate to a situation where the PPC has (pretty much ALWAYS!) failed to send the required documents to the hirer (you) with the postal Notice, by day 21 after the date they were informed of the hirer's details:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703794

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69859059#Comment_69859059

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69767583#Comment_69767583


Thanks to Edna Basher for the template appeal for when it's a Hire/company/lease car and a postal Notice has been sent out, after the hirer/lessee/company car user has been named. Remember, that does not mean they have named the 'driver'! So stay schtum about who was driving!

Quentin

The point I tried to make is that if they genuinely have the wrong reg them contacting DVLA will be futile!

They won't be able to contact the correct keeper at all

IP1103

from what i have read on here and other sites - its a deliberate ploy to get people to contact them and thus confirm they are the driver.

@twhitehousecat - that is the bit that will be used to appeal i think it is the first link. the only thing i intend to change is keep Alphabet's name out of the appeal letter.

IP1103

Hi Guys sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I am preparing the appeal to UKPC - would it be worthwhile adding that as an employee of a tenant with a long Lease (125 Years) we have a legal right to park in one of 5 spaces there is no mention of requiring parking permits etc is set out within the lease. UKPC have been 'employed' after the date of the lease and having spoken to my employer they were not approached by Savils as Managing Agents to seek their input on implementing the parking permits.

Or should i just stick to the current appeal as set out below and wait until i receive the POPLA code before raising the lease points.

Dear Sir/Madam
Re: PCN No.
I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

My street
My Town
My Postcode
I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either offer me a POPLA code or cancel the charge.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

I also intend to send an email to both the Freeholder and the Managing Agent complaining about the appointment of UKPC.

finally, seen some people advise that I should wait for the NTK/NTD before appealing. Also is appealing wise given that they have the Car Reg wrong without either telling a lie that i'm the lessee of a car with a reg that doesnt exist or or telling them the correct registration within the appeal.

I have taken screenshots of their website to show that the wrong vehicle is on their system.

Thanks again.

Edna_Basher

At this stage you just need to keep it simple and use the template "appeal" for a windscreen ticket.

This includes referring to yourself as the "keeper" and not the lessee / hirer. You'll need to edit your letter because you don't want to alert UKPC to the fact this the car was on hire - otherwise there's more of a risk that they will go ahead and get the hire company's details from the DVLA.

Other previous cases suggest that an incorrect registration on the windscreen ticket could be a UKPC ploy. In such circumstances, advice to wait for a notice to keeper would be sound advice - but only where the car is not a hire vehicle. However, you need to make every effort to keep the hire company out of the loop which is why I think it is best to "appeal" now.


Edit. When you first try to lodge your online "appeal" you'll soon find out whether or not UKPC have corrected their "error" regarding the registration number because if they haven't, their website won't recognise the correct VRN as matching the PCN reference number.