BW Legal, Defence help please

Limara

Sorry yet another BW legal claim! My son had a parking ticket last December from NCP. He did appeal as he wasn't actually parked. It was the Week before Christmas and he had driven round the entire car park several times trying to find a space, there was apparantly a couple of spaces that he couldn't fit into due to poor parking right on the lines. And him being a large lad needs to have the door open wide to get out of it.

He saw people going to leave and waited for then to pack their shopping and pushchair into the car, whilst he was waiting his wife went to the nearest ticket machine to pay for a ticket and it would not take their card. When she went back to the machine with change it then would not take in the registration of the car. They then gave up and left the car park without parking in any parking space and the driver not leaving the car! The ANPR clocked 14 minutes.
His appeal letter from NCP has listed the issue date incorrectly by 11 days and has stated that 2 out of 3 of the ticket machines were working that day and has totally ignored the fact that he wasn't at any point parked in a parking space. They also state that there is no record of his number plate being entered 9 even though he told them the machine would not register the number plate ) and he was parked in breach of their conditions. There was nothing to suggest the machine they tried to use was not working This car park normally does show out of order on the machine.

BW legal have stated that no appeal has been made, and he was parked without payment of the parking charge and the county court claim is now £243.44.

They have been hounding him phoning all the time during work hours. Even after he had the court claim they have phoned and asked him how hes going to pay it.

He has so far had some bad advice about totally ignoring everything from BW Legal. I have seen on here he must acknowledge the claim and not put anything in the defence at this stage. I really can't see how to put together a defence for it though.... any pointers how to defend this please

KeithP

What is the Date of Issue on the Claim Form?

Is your son the Registered Keeper of the car?
It really would be good if he were to be the one progressing this.

The first thing he needs to do is the Acknowledgement of Service.
That buys him an extra fourteen days to prepare his Defence.

There is a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which gives detailed pictorial guidance on how to do the AoS.

The Issue Date on NCP's Notice to Keeper is the date of issue of that NtK, not the date of the parking event.

There are lots of sample Defences in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread too.

Limara

Yes My son the Registered Keeper

The date of claim is 17th July, the Acknowledgement of Service is being done today

The drop box file is very helpful for the AOS

I have gone through loads of defences, over several days in the newbies section and trying to get other information, I cant see anything about not actually parking in a car park, Lots of people that have had the same thing but nothing as to how they defended it, and its all going right over my head. Is the fact he didn't park not a valid reason for Defence.
Your right it would be good if it was him here at the minute its me trying to help him out he only has access to a pc at work, or he would have to come here to use mine.

Thorsson

Not actually parking the car would appear to be covered by the Grace Period. This is part of the BPA's Code of Practice - Section 13:

13 Grace periods
13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at
locations where parking is not normally permitted they
must have the chance to read the terms and conditions
before they enter into the parking contract with you. If,
having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but
choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with
a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be
bound by your parking contract.
13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally
permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable
grace period in addition to the parking event before
enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace
period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.
13.2.a Vehicles are not permitted to park under the grace
period in spaces designated to specific users for example
Blue Badge holders. At all times vehicles must have
appropriate and valid permit e.g Blue Badge on display
for enforcement officer to inspect.
13.3 You must tell us the specific grace period at a site if our
compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the
private car park after the parking contract has ended, before
you take enforcement action. If the location is one where
parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

KeithP

Limara wrote: »

The date of claim is 17th July, the Acknowledgement of Service is being done today.

With a Date of Issue of 17th July, and the AoS done before 5th August, then your son has until 4pm on Monday 20th August 2018 to file his Defence.

That's nearly three weeks for your son to hone his Defence to perfection, but please tell him not to leave it until the last minute.


When he is happy with the content, the Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print the Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not, you son should chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for the Directions Questionnaire and come back here.

Limara

KeithP wrote: »

With a Date of Issue of 17th July, and the AoS done before 5th August, then your son has until 4pm on Monday 20th August 2018 to file his Defence.

That's nearly three weeks for your son to hone his Defence to perfection, but please tell him not to leave it until the last minute.


When he is happy with the content, the Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print the Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not, you son should chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for the Directions Questionnaire and come back here.

Thank you for that detailed information, his claim form states that the address for sending documents is BW legal I would think that that is a bit misleading.

Limara

Thorsson wrote: »

Not actually parking the car would appear to be covered by the Grace Period.

Thank you for that info I did wonder about grace period / not entering a contract route, their terms state that you must park
in a marked bay AND purchase a ticket before leaving the car .... he didnt park or leave the car.

KeithP

Limara wrote: »

Thank you for that detailed information, his claim form states that the address for sending documents is BW legal I would think that that is a bit misleading.

That's The Claimant's address for sending documents, isn't it?

It clearly tells you on the back of the form that the Defence should be sent to the court.

System

in a marked bay AND purchase a ticket before leaving the car .... he didnt park or leave the car.

A bit more background. Do the signs say about having to purchase within "x" minutes as if they don't, it is a defence

Also if the signs do say that, is it said at the entry (which is should) or at the P&D machine which is by them too later. So that is a second defence

Is the car park barrier controlled. If it was then the blame lies with NCP for not controlling the flows into the car park to avoid the delays at busy period. Again another line of defence and perhaps "entrapment".

BW Legal use a claim first, fit the facts later approach. So get your facts / pics of the signs first.

Limara

thankyou,

IamEmanresu wrote: »

A bit more background. Do the signs say about having to purchase within "x" minutes as if they don't, it is a defence
The signs don't state that, I have a pic of their terms and conditions board, and also their terms online do not mention it.

The car park is no longer attendant / barrier controlled.

System

The signs don't state that, I have a pic of their terms and conditions board, and also their terms online do not mention it.

There can be no contract if the term is "hidden". You should concentrate on that and add that even if a contract was presumed, it was frustrated by the inability to park due to the poor traffic management by NCP.

Normally there is a phrase within the standard defences here to ask for a "strikeout" - never seen one yet - so suggest you have a phrase saying.

Given that the issue will turn on the wording of the signs and "hidden" terms, the defendant requests a preliminary hearing to examine the same to save burdening the court with a claim that has no merit.