ESA: Spending inheritance on disability related needs?

tannedtoast

baza52 wrote: »

just because you are on benefits you are allowed to have a holiday or buy a car. its not a case of turning a blind eye it is allowed.
If he needs an adaptation and pays for it i cannot see it being a problem. £5k on a car or a £1000 holiday for him and a partner or someone to accompany him is also not extravagant.

New TV, washing machine, cooker or an update of the kitchen is also ok.
If the house needs decorating then paying someone to do it is fine.

That's good to know, but I think he'd much rather spend on making his home more habitable as he's more or less housebound so travelling isn't really an option for him without a massive battle.

He 100% needs a new kitchen, desperately in fact, so it's a bit of a relief to see this. So what would he need to do then? Just go get it done, spend the money on the aforementioned, then just explain it when they come knocking and hope for the best? Or would he be penalized for not getting permission first?

baza52

i was in a similar position, I was way over the 16k limit after an inheritance. I had a holiday, car etc and then redecorated the whole house. New furniture, white goods etc.
All i did was notify them i was over 16k and then again when i went under 16k providing bank statements as proof.
At no point was i asked what i had spent the money on but if they had i could have shown them. (or still can)
As long as the money is not spent on un needed things there is not a lot they can do.
They have to prove you deliberately deprive yourself of capital to claim means tested benefits.
Replacing worn out furniture, clothes or appliances is ok as long as you dont buy top of the range. This does not mean you have to buy cheapest either.

People will tell you here that you have to ask the dwp first etc and that you have to be very careful on what you spend but you will find very few posts from people that have had the deprivation of capital rule applied to them unless they will-fully gave money away etc.
I honestly cant remember seeing a thread where someone has had to account for every penny they spent.
If there are such threads here im sure someone will link to them.

tannedtoast

baza52 wrote: »

i was in a similar position, I was way over the 16k limit after an inheritance. I had a holiday, car etc and then redecorated the whole house. New furniture, white goods etc.
All i did was notify them i was over 16k and then again when i went under 16k providing bank statements as proof.
At no point was i asked what i had spent the money on but if they had i could have shown them. (or still can)
As long as the money is not spent on un needed things there is not a lot they can do.
They have to prove you deliberately deprive yourself of capital to claim means tested benefits.
Replacing worn out furniture, clothes or appliances is ok as long as you dont buy top of the range. This does not mean you have to buy cheapest either.

People will tell you here that you have to ask the dwp first etc and that you have to be very careful on what you spend but you will find very few posts from people that have had the deprivation of capital rule applied to them unless they will-fully gave money away etc.
I honestly cant remember seeing a thread where someone has had to account for every penny they spent.
If there are such threads here im sure someone will link to them.

Thanks so much, Baza52. This has given me some hope that he can actually get some use out of this money. I've been so worried and I've tried to keep the realities of it from him so far, so it's good to know I have a more hopeful slant to put on things now.

When you say you notified them of being over 16k - did they continue to pay your ESA during that time? And if not did you have to reapply if they stopped the payments while you were over the threshold?

pmlindyloo

You are obviously still concerned so I am giving you the Decision Maker's Guide reference about Deprivation of Capital:

Click on this link:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/689995/dmgch52.pdf

Scroll down to 52805 and start reading!

People have been suggesting that you notify the DWP in advance because of 52805 which basically says that if you tell the DWP what you intend to do with the capital and they give written permission then it cannot be seen as deprivation of capital.

This, IMO, is the best way to do these things. It stops the worry as you have permission and your dad can go ahead with spending the money for his needs. Do note that he cannot use it to pay off debts/mortgage unless they are legally enforceable.

If/when he writes (or you write and he signs)to the DWP then you could mention the following
His age
The inheritance - do stress that it has not gone through probate yet
His disabilities
His current ESA claim and the group - WRAG/Support
His needs for whatever he wishes spend the money - extension etc- and predicted costs

Other then the debts (how much are we talking about here? What kind of debts? Has he explored other options for these?) then everything you have talked about seems reasonable. The actual decision will be made by a Decision Maker so no one can tell you definitely 'yeah or nay'.

pmlindyloo

Have you actually looked into the Disabled Facilities grant for you father? This is available for owner occupiers too.

https://www.gov.uk/disabled-facilities-grants

micky2phones

Hi, why not do a list of what is needed and phone them up ?

Then confirm what was said and to whom in a letter/email wait for a reply then you have it in wriring

tannedtoast

pmlindyloo wrote: »

You are obviously still concerned so I am giving you the Decision Maker's Guide reference about Deprivation of Capital:
.........
Other then the debts (how much are we talking about here? What kind of debts? Has he explored other options for these?) then everything you have talked about seems reasonable. The actual decision will be made by a Decision Maker so no one can tell you definitely 'yeah or nay'.

Thank you so much, I will have a good read of this. My only concern with telling the DWP up front is that they could turn around and say no this early in the game. I will make a note to mention all those things though, the will hasn't actually been officially released yet, so I guess now would be the time to approach the DWP in the name of curiosity.

He's in a debt management plan for unsecured debt, and I think that's all he can really do for those. It's understandable that the DWP wouldn't consider paying those debts to be a priority, but I suppose it does show that he couldn't afford to fund the works needed without the inheritance as he can't get credit anymore.

Thank you for the advice.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Have you actually looked into the Disabled Facilities grant for you father?

I'm unsure about this, because he had a wet room fitted upstairs a few years back (it was a total bodge job and the floor has already caved in and is currently in a dangerous condition/leaking through onto downstairs lighting etc and needs totally redoing. Not to mention it's close to being unusable now because he coming to the point where he can't get upstairs safely via stairlift to use it and there's no space for a through floor lift to be put in etc) and I think the bathroom may have been done under a facilities grant, but I'm not entirely sure. I assume if it was, there'd be no more money in the pot for anything further to be done?

Do you know if these types of grant are the ones given with a charge against the property?

Because he was told due to Council rules and regs he could only convert inside existing walls, so back in back in 2011 he was offered a garage conversion for a bedroom/wetroom but he had to sign up to face a charge against his house upwards of 10K if he sold it within ten years of completion and that put him right off, as the works were only costing 12K. With his health in question, it seemed like a gamble and a mess to leave his kids if the worst happened. It also was a horrible and impractical/small layout (thanks Occupational Therapy!) which would have also meant he could no longer use a stairlift to access the upstairs in any way, so he wasn't prepared to sign up to that and be condemned to only accessing half of his home. If I recall correctly, they told him if he wanted downstairs facilities that were laid out anything close to how he wanted, he'd have to pay for it himself, which was nice of them haha! He really has had hold of the crappy end of the stick regarding getting help to better his life as a disabled person.

micky2phones wrote: »

Hi, why not do a list of what is needed and phone them up ? Then confirm what was said and to whom in a letter/email wait for a reply then you have it in wriring

That's a good idea. I'm just concerned about rocking the boat early, and that they will say "no way" before he even knows for sure how much he's going to get.

Weetabix8

2014 and in a similar position to your Dad and I could not get written permission from the DWP. I got my MP involved and the DWP still would not give written permission, they just kept saying to keep receipts and the decision maker would decide if I had spent appropriately or if there was any Deprivation of Capital.

Middle range spending on disability related goods and services allowed. It was back then below 16K to reclaim and less £4 for every 1K between 16K and 6K. PIP not taken into account. I was worried I would spend on wrong things and did keep every receipt. DWP did not ask me for any of them and it went okay, although it was nerve wracking for me with not wanting any larger items like kitchen re-fitted.

May have changed since I tried to get written agreement of the list I had, which did include decorating and a car and by all means try but I was told they do not give such permission in writing or on the phone. My MP's secretary helped me with thinking what was needed and staying in the mid-range.

Good luck

tannedtoast

Weetabix8 wrote: »

2014 and in a similar position to your Dad and I could not get written permission from the DWP. I got my MP involved and the DWP still would not give written permission, they just kept saying to keep receipts and the decision maker would decide if I had spent appropriately or if there was any Deprivation of Capital.

Middle range spending on disability related goods and services allowed. It was back then below 16K to reclaim and less £4 for every 1K between 16K and 6K. PIP not taken into account. I was worried I would spend on wrong things and did keep every receipt. DWP did not ask me for any of them and it went okay, although it was nerve wracking for me with not wanting any larger items like kitchen re-fitted.

May have changed since I tried to get written agreement of the list I had, which did include decorating and a car and by all means try but I was told they do not give such permission in writing or on the phone. My MP's secretary helped me with thinking what was needed and staying in the mid-range.

Good luck

Thank you for sharing your story and the advice, it's very helpful to hear different experiences.

Between the time you notified to them, and the time you'd spent enough to go back under the threshold, did they cut your ESA in any way? My concern is that they'll cut it before any of the inheritance can even be spent.

When you say they didn't ask you for receipts, did they ask you for anything at all? Like an explanation of where the money went/was going or anything like that? I would absolutely keep all receipts, as I expect I'll be in charge of arranging any works/purchases, but I just wonder if you have to keep them informed as you spend, or just sit tight and see if they come and ask for it?

pmlindyloo

I am going to be blunt so forgive me.

You are going round in circles.

People are telling you of their experiences but only a Decision Maker will make the decision. There is no central system for this. It varies from area to area. I cannot see why you would be afraid of 'stirring the pot' if you wrote to them. If they say 'no' then you will have your answer and you will have to rethink your dad's housing situation. (How old is he, by the way?)

If you have the work done then you have all the stress of worrying about it and the small chance that it would be counted as notional capital and your dad's income based part of the ESA will stop. (the contribution based part would continue and this is not means tested so his savings would not affect it)

Is it worth the risk of the DWP finding out about the inheritance, stopping dad's income based ESA and then your appealing to show how the capital was spent? Nightmare.

As regards the Disabled Facilities Grant you need to ask your local council if he would be entitled again (you might also mention the current wet room situation) As regards the charge on the property if he sells or transfers property within 10 years, this is common practice by a lot of councils. If you could reassure your dad that this is reasonable and would not be of any concern as regards inheritance (the property would surely be worth more with any work undertaken?) then, if a second grant was offered, he may be more amenable to it.

Good luck with it all and I hope you won't think I am being less than sympathetic to your dad's situation.