Sympathetic treatment / overdraft

glasgowm148

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

personally i have bipolar, had my overdraft for 10 years, wasn't diagnosed when i got the overdraft so i dont really feel i can blame the bank, much of my debt was due to manic episodes but i feel its still my responsibility. but the overdraft is now gone for good (and im not being charged £40 a month for the damn thing). If the bank werent aware of OP having ADHD then i can;t see how they are at fault.

Because your bipolar didn't stop you switching to a plan that would've saved you money. ADHD comes with impulsive spending too, just as much as bipolar except it's 24/7. I'm not putting that on the banks. I'm expecting overdraft fee's I wasn't required to pay to be backdated because my disorder prevented me from making them aware of that fact.

Anyway, after speaking to a law student he's adviced to report to trading standards and EHRC for discrimination under the equality act since they have no accessible digital way to contact them (like most other major banks do) and speak to citizens advice first before contacting a lawyer to see if it can be solved that way so doing those two things tomorrow :beer:

Also, he says my student loan being paid into that account is significant. So the bank could've helped regardless of ADHD.

mije1983

glasgowm148 wrote: »

I get that now, I thought I was clear enough by outlining the symptoms. Considering half the people didn't even read the thread and thought I wanted the bank to do something completely different from what I said I'll not be so optimistic in future.

Outlining symptoms isn't going to make people 'understand' in the way you want. For example, one of my friends 'outlined' their new job to me a few weeks ago. I still have no idea what it entails! But that's because his field is something I have no knowledge, experience, or even interest, in. Plus, if I could understand his job in a hour, it makes his years of training redundant!


I'm not sure if it is due to your ADHD, but you seem to come across as quite defensive when people see a point differently to your view. A solicitor will not necessarily agree with everything you say either so you may need to temper your expectations just in case it doesn't go in your favour.




Edit: Just read your previous post (I really should refresh before I post!). Good luck tomorrow. It would be good if you could come back and update the thread with your findings.

glasgowm148

mije1983 wrote: »

Outlining symptoms isn't going to make people 'understand' in the way you want. For example, one of my friends 'outlined' their new job to me a few weeks ago. I still have no idea what it entails! But that's because his field is something I have no knowledge, experience, or even interest, in. Plus, if I could understand his job in a hour, it makes his years of training redundant!


I'm not sure if it is due to your ADHD, but you seem to come across as quite defensive when people see a point differently to your view. A solicitor will not necessarily agree with everything you say either so you may need to temper your expectations just in case it doesn't go in your favour.




Edit: Just read your previous post (I really should refresh before I post!). Good luck tomorrow. It would be good if you could come back and update the thread with your findings.

Not defensive, just blunt AF - also a symptom

Will update when I win

ValiantSon

glasgowm148 wrote: »

Because your bipolar didn't stop you switching to a plan that would've saved you money. ADHD comes with impulsive spending too, just as much as bipolar except it's 24/7. I'm not putting that on the banks. I'm expecting overdraft fee's I wasn't required to pay to be backdated because my disorder prevented me from making them aware of that fact.

Anyway, after speaking to a law student he's adviced to report to trading standards and EHRC for discrimination under the equality act since they have no accessible digital way to contact them (like most other major banks do) and speak to citizens advice first before contacting a lawyer to see if it can be solved that way so doing those two things tomorrow :beer:

Also, he says my student loan being paid into that account is significant. So the bank could've helped regardless of ADHD.

OP, you are very good at telling everyone how your condition affects you, and saying that everyone is unsympathetic, but you show absolutely zero compassion or understanding for any condition that anyone else has. You have made dismissive comments about a range of mental health problems in general, and about one person's bipolar disorder in particular. Going on like this is not helping you at all.

You would be well-advised not to incur the costs of engaging a solicitor to fight this as, despite your completely uninformed view that the case would be, "an easy win," it is likely to be far from it. You could end up with even more costs than you currently face and then be really screwed. You have problems dealing with executive functions, so let me help you: taking a case to court would be a bad decision as there is a very high probability that you will not win; you will have to pay up-front costs with money that you don't have; and you may well end up in even worse debt.

By all means make a complaint to Halifax outlining your latest objection to their charges, and if they dismiss your complaint then feel free to take it to the FOS. My strong suspicion is that you won't win, but it will cost you nothing to try this.

In all honesty - and I don't say this because I am unsympathetic, but rather because I am a realist with a fair bit of life experience, and some professional experience of working with people with ADHD - I don't think you are going to win, and you will find yourself having to pay back the money. Prepare yourself for that, and a plan to deal with it, while taking the free route of a complaint to Halifax, followed by the FOS. Be prepared to accept the outcome, however unjust you believe it to be, and then deal with the situation.

Meanwhile, please try and show some compassion and sympathy for those who have very real mental health problems that you apparently know vey little about.

glasgowm148 wrote: »

Anyway, after speaking to a law student he's adviced to report to trading standards and EHRC for discrimination under the equality act since they have no accessible digital way to contact them (like most other major banks do) and speak to citizens advice first before contacting a lawyer to see if it can be solved that way so doing those two things tomorrow

The important word in that paragraph was, "student". You have taken inexpert and inexperienced legal advice. Would you ask a medical student to remove your ruptured appendix because one day they might be qualified and experienced enough to do so?

I'm sorry, but I can just see this all going horribly wrong.

glasgowm148

ValiantSon wrote: »

OP, you are very good at telling everyone how your condition affects you, and saying that everyone is unsympathetic, but you show absolutely zero compassion or understanding for any condition that anyone else has. You have made dismissive comments about a range of metal health problems in general, and about one person's bipolar disorder in particular. Going on like this is not helping you at all.

You would be well-advised not to incur the costs of engaging a solicitor to fight this as, despite your completely uninformed view that the case would be, "an easy win," it is likely to be far from it. You could end up with even more costs than you currently face and then be really screwed. You have problems dealing with executive functions, so let me help you: taking a case to court would be a bad decision as there is a very high probability that you will not win; you will have to pay up-front costs with money that you don't have; and you may well end up in even worse debt.

By all means make a complaint to Halifax outlining your latest objection to their charges, and if they dismiss your complaint then feel free to take it to the FOS. My strong suspicion is that you won't win, but it will cost you nothing to try this.

In all honesty - and I don't say this because I am unsympathetic, but rather because I am a realist with a fair bit of life experience, and some professional experience of working with people with ADHD - I don't think you are going to win, and you will find yourself having to pay back the money. Prepare yourself for that, and a plan to deal with it, while taking the free route of a complaint to Halifax, followed by the FOS. Be prepared to accept the outcome, however, unjust you believe it to be, and then deal with the situation.

Meanwhile, please try and show some compassion and sympathy for those who have very real mental health problems that you apparently know vey little about.

I've not diminished anyone elses problems, they're just unrelated to this issue at hand. Your realism isn't really backed by anything except pessimissm so forgive me for disregarding it.

ValiantSon

glasgowm148 wrote: »

I've not diminished anyone elses problems, they're just unrelated to this issue at hand. Your realism isn't really backed by anything except pessimissm so forgive me for disregarding it.

You have dismissed and diminished other people's conditions.

I'm not surprised that you are completely ignoring what I have to say, because you have behaved in exactly the same way with everyone else. This is despite the fact that most people have tried to help you.

Good luck with everything, because with your current attitude that you are right about everything, you are really going to need it.

I'm out.

glasgowm148

ValiantSon wrote: »

You have dismissed and diminished other people's conditions.

I'm not surprised that you are completely ignoring what I have to say, because you have behaved in exactly the same way with everyone else. This is despite the fact that most people have tried to help you.

Good luck with everything, because with your current attitude that you are right about everything, you are really going to need it.

I'm out.

In the first scenario I said case studies on mental health in general weren't important to my specific circumstances. In the second I said impulsive spending due to bipolar also wasn't relevant.

Because ADHD makes me experience similar symptoms, but I'm not trying to get money back for experiencing those. I'm trying to get a refund for not completing an admin task for which I had a legitimate medical reason that made me unable to complete it.

We wouldn't fault someone for having a deficit in vision or hearing, but we would get pretty annoyed if they didn't take proactive measures (glasses, hearing aids, sitting closer to the front) to participate in society once they realise they can't see

I grew up as a pretty smart kid, and never fully developed some really basic organizational and discipline skills because I could always work around them. The problem is those skills are very important when dealing with a weak executive function and completing mundane tasks, so I've had to spend the past several months relearning many things from the beginning. It hasn't been easy, and a lot of times I still suck at it, but I try to do it whether or not I "feel" like it because I know it needs to be done. And now that I'm aware of these downfalls and coping mechanisms to combat it - it is my responsibility to get a handle on them. Just like it's the responsibility of people with mental health problems to get a handle on their mental health. The diagnosis (or lack thereof) is the distinction.


I'm not 'right about everything'. I'm right about unmanaged ADHD putting me at a massive disadvantage in this specific scenario and fairly expecting compassionate treatment and equality.

JuicyJesus

glasgowm148 wrote: »

What case studies? I'm diagnosed with severe ADHD so it shouldn't be a problem. Also, it's not a mental health issue. It's a brain disorder which primary symptom (executive function disorder) causes exactly these types of issues. I feel like you're comparing this to depressin or anxiety or something neurotypical like that . ADHD is more on the level of hidden autism to primarily effects your ability to do things like this. If I could have done it, I would've. It's nothing like depression

Here's the FOS case studies. Fill your boots. They are published so people can see the way that FOS handles complaints and the general tenor they take, although it's important to mention that they don't work on a "precedent" basis and take every case on its facts.

Completely different complaint in almost every aspect. One was for the fee's being unfair simply due to me being poor and them ripping the pis5. The other is the fee's being unfair because I should've been exempt but had a brain disorder which prevented me from enacting that. You can make anything look identical by summarising it down to such basic components.

When the basic components are identical then they are identical. Your contention is that it was unfair of Halifax to charge fees, the reasoning for that is somewhat irrelevant and FOS would have every right to see you as trying to have "another bite at the cherry" in relitigating a complaint that was already decided.

I'm engaging this on the back of understanding ADHD. The science is on my side. Providing my lawyer is given a chance to explain that in court it's an easy win. I appreciate small claims courts are probably decades behind in this sort of stuff too so I'll wait to see what a lawyer says.

I get the impression that anyone who doesn't agree with you and say that Halifax should refund you all your fees is "ignorant" and "decades behind". Should this get as far as a courtroom, you may have a rude awakening. But of course:

Anyway, after speaking to a law student he's adviced to report to trading standards and EHRC for discrimination under the equality act since they have no accessible digital way to contact them (like most other major banks do) and speak to citizens advice first before contacting a lawyer to see if it can be solved that way so doing those two things tomorrow

To be blunt I have no idea what your law student friend is burbling on about with regards to a lack of accessible means of contact. Banks are not required to accept communication by email, as you prefer.

In the nicest possible sense, I would strongly suggest that if you are going to pursue the frankly harebrained idea of suing one of Britain's biggest banks over something where they haven't actually done anything wrong in law (despite what your student friend says - law students are notorious for knowing a lot less than they let on) you seek actual legal advice from an actual solicitor who has an actual duty to you to advise you on the merits of your course of action before you incur even more debt doing something with little prospect of success. That does not include the CAB.

Flobberchops

OP,


Regardless of the "science" you have on your side or your impeccable deductive logic that leads you to the conclusion that you deserve free money, it simply isn't going to happen. The reason is that if the bank upheld your complaint (as opposed to paying you goodwill money) it would create a precedent whereby anybody could be freed from a financial commitment just by claiming that they weren't in the right frame of mind when they originally signed the agreement. Can you start to imagine how disastrous that would be for banks, and any other lender?

"Sorry, I can't pay my car finance this month, and in fact I'd like a rebate on all payments plus the deposit. I had mild Bipolar Disorder when I signed the contract and wasn't thinking straight. I'll be keeping the car though, it would be terrible for my self esteem if you took it away"


"Sorry, Mortgage Provider, I've decided that when I signed the mortgage agreement I was acting under duress as I needed a roof over my head. I see now that I could have lived in an off-grid £5000 Welsh eco-yurt for the last ten years, but this option wasn't made sufficiently clear to me at the point I completed on my detached four-bed. I'd like to have the difference returned to me"


I don't see any evidence that your disability made it *impossible* to access your banking, only more difficult. Guess what, buttercup, I have customers come into my bank who are blind, who are deaf, who are in wheelchairs or have such profound manual disability that they can't hold a pen or type in a PIN code. Even if you couldn't come into the branch in person you still have internet banking, telephony or written instructions available to you, and you've demonstrated in this very thread that you're literate and have an internet connection. To be blunt, people with more debilitating conditions than you can manage their accounts; you seem to be under the impression that your ADHD is a Get Out Of Jail Free Card that can be invoked to get your way whenever you want, which I consider something of an insult to those worse off than you who are grafting along and taking full adult responsibility for their actions.


Anyway, best of luck.

glasgowm148

Under the Equality Act, (an apparently fair policy has a different impact on you and means you are disadvantaged) - seems to fit pretty well.

They're not required by law specifically to have an email contact, but if lack thereof puts me at a disadvantage it does violate the Act...we'll see. Submitted another complaint direct to halifax based on this, also emailed citizens advice. Will try Trading Standards direct based on Halifax's response