Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

andrewf75

cogito wrote: »

The Chinese are currently the greatest exploiters of African resources by far. Try getting them to acknowledge 'moral duty'.

That’s precisely what I’m trying to do. No use finger pointing if you don’t acknowledge our own moral duties.

andrewf75

mrginge wrote: »

DrGinge prescribes you a large dose of economic reality.

That’s just a complete cop out. Let’s not bother even trying to solve the world’s problems because it’s just the way it is.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

then history is quite likely to blame us this time.

History never gets totally forgotten. As much as the cracks get plastered over.

Enterprise_1701C

If you want to put moral obligations on countries because of the past you can't stop two of three generations ago because there's reasons in the deeper past for what happened, and so it goes in perpetuity.

How long has the eu had the embargo on admitting countries with territorial disputes btw? Just I can think of a few that should not have beed admitted under those circumstances.

Joan_number_1_2

andrewf75 wrote: »

but what you seem not to understand is that it’s not that we can’t trade effectively without the single market, it’s that for 40 odd years we have successfully built our economy on the basis of that level of market access and that we have attracted foreign business here on that basis! Had we never been part of it, I’m sure just like Switzerland we’d have built our economy differently but still successfully. It’s the sudden change that makes it such a big deal. Even our imports from outside the EU come via EU trade deals with third countries.

There's absolutely nothing in my post which could possibly lead you to the conclusion that "you seem not to understand", leading me to conclude that you're the one not understanding.
Is it deliberate?

Most of our global trade is not with the EU.
While some of that trade is under EU trade agreements, most of it is not and you really ought to check before jumping.
China and the USA are our two biggest non-EU import sources.
Please tell us what trade deals the EU has with these countries?
And (again) please explain where these "car parks" of waiting goods and hindered tourists are?

Yes, I know that it's the possible change that makes it a "big deal" but any potential problems will mostly be at the EU's insistence because we did not have such problems before joining.
What you need to think about is that we could if necessary replace most of the EU trade with trade from non-EU sources who would by & large love to increase their share.
Korean cars; Israeli, South American & African fruit & veg; there really isn't much that could not be replaced and before you scream "but the distance! The time!" - well first this trade already happens, just not as much as it could and second it would still be faster than your feared delays caused by the EU.

It's been said before.
Instead of thinking what problems Brexit could cause, why not look for potential benefits?

mrginge

andrewf75 wrote: »

That’s just a complete cop out. Let’s not bother even trying to solve the world’s problems because it’s just the way it is.

That’s not what I said so no need to get in a flap.

Joan_number_1_2

andrewf75 wrote: »

That’s precisely what I’m trying to do. No use finger pointing if you don’t acknowledge our own moral duties.

Then why aren't you acknowledging our recent or enduring input?

Theresa May has announced plans to boost Britain's investment in Africa after Brexit, during her first trip to the continent as prime minister.

In a speech in Cape Town, she pledged £4bn in support for African economies, to create jobs for young people.

See that, £4 billion!
Not only that but on top of the EU's funding for Aid (for example) the UK overseas aid budget in 2017 was £13.9 billion.

If we're honest though, the many billions poured into the continent from global sources has made little real difference so far.
Lots of it seems to end up making the wrong people wealthy.
That's why so many are still crossing the continent trying to reach Europe.

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing in my post which could possibly lead you to the conclusion that "you seem not to understand", leading me to conclude that you're the one not understanding.
Is it deliberate?

There was, because you seem to have ignored many key aspects and then accused others of not understanding!

Yes, I know that it's the possible change that makes it a "big deal" but any potential problems will mostly be at the EU's insistence because we did not have such problems before joining.

No. We are choosing to not only leave the EU, but leave the single market and customs union. The consequences of that are down to our choices. Blaming the EU is ridiculous.

Instead of thinking what problems Brexit could cause, why not look for potential benefits?

This is one thing I wholeheartedly agree with and in remain-dominated debates I frequently make this argument myself, stop being negative and think of the positives. On the whole I think remainers need to do this more instead of whinging. I’m not that kind of remainer, I recognise benefits in leaving.

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

Then why aren't you acknowledging our recent or enduring input?

I do acknowledge it. Two different conversations going on here and I can't even remember where this started. I just commented on something someone said that we should "let Africa sort their own problems out". I fully appreciate we do more than most countries and I am pleased that despite Brexit and populist opposition to foreign aid, none of our politicians seriously suggest reducing it.

Totally agree it needs to be better directed.

andrewf75

mrginge wrote: »

That’s not what I said so no need to get in a flap.

didn't mean it to come across as if I was getting in a flap, struggling to keep up with two simultaneous debates!