Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

I voted remain and if you read the whole qoute you will see he what he said is entirely accurate and the reasons talks are not progressing are political.

What other reasons would you ever expect?

The UK is not sure what kind of cake it wants, but it is sure the will of the people is that we get to eat the cake and still have it.

Thanks to having to respect a referendum result, we have red lines that don't intersect at all with their red lines. There is no way to resolve without seriously moving them.

We could very easily get a deal, if we stopped asking the EU to slice their own throats in return.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

What other reasons would you ever expect? They are politicians after all.

The UK is not sure what kind of cake it wants, but it is sure the will of the people is that we get to eat the cake and still have it.

We could very easily get a deal, if we stopped asking the EU to slice their own throats in return.

Well he obviously expect it and that is what he said it's no good taking the first line out of context especially if you ignore should.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Well he obviously expect it and that is what he said it's no good taking the first line out of context especially if you ignore should.

I'm not ignoring should, I'm firmly leaving it in there.

should:

a. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.

b. used to indicate what is probable.

The quote is explicitly saying that either there was an obligation or duty for them to be the easiest negotiations in history or at least it was probable. There is no basis for that assertion at all. Especially if the person saying it was expecting that it will end in a political stand still.

I think you imagine he said "might", but if he'd said that then less people would have voted to leave. Lying is obviously the best way to achieve a democratic result. Or maybe he's just delusional?

ukcarper

I don't agree qualifying the statement with the second sentence completely changes meaning of first sentence. I also think you are wrong about more people would have voted remain I don't believe it would have made the slightest difference.

In my opinion to many remain voters are looking for excuses as to why leave won but the truth is the majority just wanted to leave. As I have said before I was amazed when the referendum was called and the vast majority of MPs back it as I though leave would win and was not surprised in the slightest when they did.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

In my opinion to many remain voters are looking for excuses as to why leave won but the truth is the majority just wanted to leave.

A lot of people did want to leave because they don't like foreigners.

Some people were taken in by how it would be better for the country to leave. The end result of the referendum was extraordinarily tight, if those people hadn't been lied to then we would have stayed in. Yes it was obvious they were being lied to, it was like a re-run of the rise of the nazi party.

But I digress. Who ever said that the negotiations should be easy was stating that it probably would be easy, but it was a lie. A big stinking lie. You might be happy about the lie, because it got you the result you wanted. But that just makes you look bad.

Enough old people have died and new voters come in that if the referendum was held today it wouldn't go the same way, that is why leavers are crying so hard whenever someone suggests another vote.

Thrugelmir

mumf wrote: »

Brexit was going to give the NHS 350 Million quid a week,from day one.I saw it on the side of the Brexit bus.It must be true.

Money doesn't grow on trees. Though many people seem to think it does.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

A lot of people did want to leave because they don't like foreigners.

If that was the case. Immigration would have been an issue many decades ago. Many of us are direct descendents of same. Not everyone flocked to the USA.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

A lot of people did want to leave because they don't like foreigners.

Some people were taken in by how it would be better for the country to leave. The end result of the referendum was extraordinarily tight, if those people hadn't been lied to then we would have stayed in. Yes it was obvious they were being lied to, it was like a re-run of the rise of the nazi party.

But I digress. Who ever said that the negotiations should be easy was stating that it probably would be easy, but it was a lie. A big stinking lie. You might be happy about the lie, because it got you the result you wanted. But that just makes you look bad.

Enough old people have died and new voters come in that if the referendum was held today it wouldn't go the same way, that is why leavers are crying so hard whenever someone suggests another vote.

I wonder if people like you know any leave voters personally or just sprout out all the old cliches. The majority of people I know voted leave and they do not fit your description and although concern over unlimited immigration was a major factor it was by no means the only reason they voted leave. Denying the high levels of immigration is causing problems does nothing to help the situation. I also wouldn't be so sure that remain would win this time the only reason we had last referendum was because politicians thought remain would win.

Daniel54

buglawton wrote: »

We send the EU £350 million a week.
Let's fund the NHS instead.

That's the wording, which is fully in keeping with modern advertising standards. If you took that at face value (or rather, you joined the dots over optimistically) you've also probably been taken in by your last mobile or broadband contract too.

Like most MSEers, I don't take anything written in big letters on a hoarding at face value, always dig deeper. I didn't take that advert at face value and I didn't vote remain.

Why not defer to the all party treasury select committee,which unanimously found the words on the side of the bus to be highly misleading and repetition of the claim deeply troubling.

If these words had applied to an advertisement,it would have been pulled immediately and a retraction published.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/652655/National_Insurance_Fund_Accounts__Great_Britain__-_2016_to_2017.pdf

antrobus

phillw wrote: »

....

Enough old people have died and new voters come in that if the referendum was held today it wouldn't go the same way, that is why leavers are crying so hard whenever someone suggests another vote.

You could say the same about any electoral test. The electorate is constantly changing and people are always speculating how that will impact on the results. For as long as I can remember, people have been saying that once all those old Tory voters have died off and been replaced by bright young radicals then we will have a permanent Labour government. Trouble is, all those bright young radicals get older, vote Conservative, and everything stays the same.

In any case, there isn't going to be a second referendum, so it don't really matter.