CP Plus - Wimbledon Train Station

HampshireBiker

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the MSE forums, and although i've found so much information relating to private parking charges and the associated companies here, I could really do with a little more advice please. I have read the stickies! I just wanted to clarify i'm on the right track before actually doing anything. Please don't bite my head off!

About a week ago, I received an "Unpaid Penalty Notice Reminder" for £120 from Parking Collection Services (part of Debt Recovery Plus), claiming to be acting on behalf of CP Plus.

This relates to my vehicle being allegedly parked at Wimbledon train station in early June without a valid ticket/permit or a parking charge not paid via RingGo.

I wasn't using the car on the date of the alleged parking offence, and therefore had no prior knowledge of this until I received the reminder from PCS last week.

I've drafted a couple of letters using templates from this forum. One for the DVLA (re: KADOE etc) and one for CP Plus. I've totally disregarded the concept of contacting PCS as they are essentially just a debt collection company.

To try and keep this brief, my questions are:

1) Am I on the right lines with the intention to contact the DVLA and CP Plus? I haven't yet printed the letters.
2) Should I be contacting anyone at all or just ignoring the whole thing?
3) Has anyone else been in this situation? What was the course of action and outcome?

I'm happy to answer your questions and provide further info if required. I didn't want my first post to be a rambly one! Thanks in advance, and apologies if this is an exact repeat of a previous thread.

Thorsson

I'm not an expert, but as no-one is answering you, I think your position is similar to this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5872251/indigo-station-parking-fine-driver-named-in-haste.

If the driver was a rail traveller and has a valid reason for not paying then you could appeal to the TOC; otherwise you're already nearly 2 months in and PCS can do nothing.

Not sure why you would contact DVLA here, so maybe wait until someone knowledgeable advises.

beamerguy

HampshireBiker .... best wait until the experts reply

PS: Do not respond to any PM (Private message) unless
the poster has 1000 posts plus

Handbags-at-dawn

Have a look at this CP Plus thread here:-
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5734100/train-station-penaltycn&highlight=cp+plus&page=3#topofpage
Post 47 gives a link to a PPN - probably the same as the driver of your car got on the windscreen; and at post 58 there's a link to the NtK - is yours the same?

As you can see, they are demanding payment of a penalty purely on the basis of an allegation ("reasonable cause to believe.....") - thus mimicking a council parking penalty. This is unlawful: fraudulent actually, though no-one in authority seems to give a damn. Only the Magistrates'Court can impose a penalty for parking in breach of the Byelaws, and then only following a plea or finding of guilt. Even the DfT have admitted this - see the bottom paragraph of page 1 of this letter:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/311011/response/770331/attach/2/F0013227%20Follow%20Up%20Reply.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Sadly, it seems TOCs like to think they are above the law - or at least that the presumption of innocence (the "Golden Thread" of our criminal justice system) doesn't apply to alleged parking offences. Whatever, these home-made penalties are illegal and no-one, whether driver, owner or keeper, is obliged to pay them.

That aside, the important thing is, you weren't driving. As you have no intention of telling them who was, and you are under no duty whatsoever to do so, they have no reason to hold on to your personal data. So technically you may have the right to require them to erase it (article 17 GDPR). But if I were you I'd play a bit of innocent ping-pong until the 6 months - and any risk of prosecution - is up, and then go for it.

HampshireBiker

Thorsson wrote: »

I'm not an expert, but as no-one is answering you, I think your position is similar to this thread:...

If the driver was a rail traveller and has a valid reason for not paying then you could appeal to the TOC; otherwise you're already nearly 2 months in and PCS can do nothing.

Not sure why you would contact DVLA here, so maybe wait until someone knowledgeable advises.

Hi Thorsson, I found a template letter to the DVLA regarding the obtaining of registered keeper details without due cause, in this case, the belief that keeper liability according to PoFA cannot be invoked as the alleged breach of contract occurred on private land covered by railway byelaws.

Handbags-at-dawn wrote: »

Have a look at this CP Plus thread here:-....

Post 47 gives a link to a PPN - probably the same as the driver of your car got on the windscreen; and at post 58 there's a link to the NtK - is yours the same?

As you can see, they are demanding payment of a penalty purely on the basis of an allegation ("reasonable cause to believe.....") - thus mimicking a council parking penalty. This is unlawful: fraudulent actually, though no-one in authority seems to give a damn. Only the Magistrates'Court can impose a penalty for parking in breach of the Byelaws, and then only following a plea or finding of guilt. Even the DfT have admitted this - see the bottom paragraph of page 1 of this letter:...

Sadly, it seems TOCs like to think they are above the law - or at least that the presumption of innocence (the "Golden Thread" of our criminal justice system) doesn't apply to alleged parking offences. Whatever, these home-made penalties are illegal and no-one, whether driver, owner or keeper, is obliged to pay them.

That aside, the important thing is, you weren't driving. As you have no intention of telling them who was, and you are under no duty whatsoever to do so, they have no reason to hold on to your personal data. So technically you may have the right to require them to erase it (article 17 GDPR). But if I were you I'd play a bit of innocent ping-pong until the 6 months - and any risk of prosecution - is up, and then go for it.

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately I never saw the actual notice affixed to the windscreen, but I would imagine it's the same as the one pictured in post 47 of your link. The letter I received IS however, identical to that pictured in post 58.

As I said, I haven't even printed the letters yet. The letter I have ready for CP Plus is around one and a half pages long. I'm just wondering if I should reduce that to bare essentials only. Eg; Won't be paying, wasn't the driver, I deny any liability etc. Either way, I won't be sending it out until next week, closer to the 28 day deadline stipulated in my letter from PCS. I do intend to drag this out as long as possible.

Thanks for the link to the reply letter from DfT too, very useful info there!

I would welcome any further thoughts or suggestions before I send these letters next week!

Thorsson

Hi HB

So the letter to DVLA is essentially a complaint, as the cat is already out of the bag so to speak? Given that DVLA are still doing this, 6 years after the Act became law, suggests that they don't take much notice of these complaints. I bow to superior knowledge, but if you're writing a complaint, your MP may get more mileage, as these scams are now well known in Parliament, with Sir Greg Knight's Private Member's Bill well on the way to becoming law. Not sure that enough focus has been put on the behaviour of the station car park shysters.

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

nosferatu1001

Your details CAN BE ACCESSED OP. Even where POFA does not apply. So no complaint on that matter.

HampshireBiker

Thorsson wrote: »

Hi HB

So the letter to DVLA is essentially a complaint, as the cat is already out of the bag so to speak? Given that DVLA are still doing this, 6 years after the Act became law, suggests that they don't take much notice of these complaints. I bow to superior knowledge, but if you're writing a complaint, your MP may get more mileage, as these scams are now well known in Parliament, with Sir Greg Knight's Private Member's Bill well on the way to becoming law. Not sure that enough focus has been put on the behaviour of the station car park shysters.

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Your details CAN BE ACCESSED OP. Even where POFA does not apply. So no complaint on that matter.

The letter for the DVLA is essentially a complaint, yes. It is based on a template found elsewhere in the forum. It was my belief that - based on information gleaned from similar threads - keeper details could only be requested with due and reasonable cause. If keeper liability for a parking charge cannot be invoked because the alleged "breach of contract" took place on private land covered by byelaws, then surely there is no reasonable cause to trace the keeper of the vehicle?

The_Deep wrote: »

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Thanks for the info. The video makes for some very interesting viewing, and I will continue with it after lunch.

Would you suggest ONLY writing to my MP, or writing to my MP as well as proceeding with the letter to CP Plus, perhaps enclosing a copy of that letter and associated documentation with the letter to my MP? The letter drafted for CP Plus is really only intended as a response to the letter (NtK) I received from PCS, although I do state clearly in that letter that I have no intention of responding to PCS, or any other debt collection company.

Obviously i'm new to this parking penalty malarky, but i'm already learning lots of valuable info. Just need to get on with the impending "ping pong" game mentioned earlier. If I hadn't had the foresight to check for info online, I might have been stupid enough to just pay it! :eek:

nosferatu1001

Youre wrong
They can acess in order to ask the keeper who the driver is. Same as they did prePOFA.

Dnot argue or rehash this topic.

Thorsson

HampshireBiker wrote: »

Would you suggest ONLY writing to my MP, or writing to my MP as well as proceeding with the letter to CP Plus, perhaps enclosing a copy of that letter and associated documentation with the letter to my MP? The letter drafted for CP Plus is really only intended as a response to the letter (NtK) I received from PCS, although I do state clearly in that letter that I have no intention of responding to PCS, or any other debt collection company.

As I see it, you need to write to CP Plus, you should complain to your MP and it's a waste of time writing to DVLA. But I'm new, so wait for this to be confirmed or otherwise.