Homer Price - Fair

Doozergirl

Pdbaggett wrote: »

That said the general consensus on this board seems to be they are worth what ever they want to charge and you should be happy they turn up at all...

That simply isn't true. Nobody says that at all and I'm not sure why you'd want to even suggest it, it's insulting to those of us who give a lot of time to help people, many times trying in vain to stop people heading straight into trouble.

I employ many different trades and I operate always on the same basis. I ask for a quote. If I'm happy with the quote, the person and their attitude, I accept it. If I'm not sure then I will look to obtain other quotes for comparison. If they come in at around the same price then I know that I must be in the right ballpark. If they aren't, then I have to make an informed decision on who to choose.

What I would never do is agree something with someone and then decide that I was entitled to half the price for any reason at all. The decision to accept a quote is based on the job that needs doing, not the time it takes. If I want to pay based on time then I agree a day rate. But it is my decision to make and to stick to from the start. It's called taking responsibility for ones own actions and having integrity.

People don't get to decide that an agreed price isn't fair after the work is completed because people have opportunity to do their due diligence beforehand. If it needs snagging, it needs snagging. If it's woefully inadequate, that's another issue; but money is due on completion.

Paella rice in Waitress is £2.69. In Asda it's £1.15. It's probably even less in Aldi. MSE doesn't suggest buying the Waitrose one, eating it and then throwing a tantrum in the shop afterwards. It's not going to work. It tells you to compare beforehand.

There is a reason why tradespeople don't like breaking invoices down and it isn't to hide things from honest customers.

Pdbaggett

Mm paella rice is a bit of a bad analogy, if you don't like it they all have a money back guarantee, you wouldn't need to throw a tantrum. Take it back get a refund and usually a gesture of goodwill I. E a voucher.

You are also paying different prices for quality (or at least perceived perception of it).

You have to admit as a lay person if someone quoted for 2 people and 1 turned up you would feel somewhat puzzled at the very least.

Would you be happy paying for a waiting service for a wedding that quoted 3 waiters on the invoice but only 2 showed up as they decided they could handle the guests with 2 people not 3?

Doozergirl

Pdbaggett wrote: »

Mm paella rice is a bit of a bad analogy, if you don't like it they all have a money back guarantee, you wouldn't need to throw a tantrum. Take it back get a refund and usually a gesture of goodwill I. E a voucher.

You are also paying different prices for quality (or at least perceived perception of it).

You have to admit as a lay person if someone quoted for 2 people and 1 turned up you would feel somewhat puzzled at the very least.

Would you be happy paying for a waiting service for a wedding that quoted 3 waiters on the invoice but only 2 showed up as they decided they could handle the guests with 2 people not 3?

The rice is a perfect analogy. I specifically used the words "eat it" - you're not going to get a refund upon presenting Waitrose with a turd!
One also pays tradespeople differently based on the perception and receipt of quality.

One might be confused if one person turned up, but one should also be able to apply the logic that it is definitely going to take one person twice as long as it would take two people.

Your waiting analogy is terrible. You are specifically buying labour in that one, not a finished product. There would be specific start and end times and there would be an issue with the product - which is service!

If one person doesn't turn up, the job would either
a) not be done properly because time is limited
b) take the same number of man hours but take more of the other's time.

There is only one outcome for the electrician. He is quoting the finished product, not quoting for time. The finished job is what the customer asked for. If his mate doesn't show up, the only outcome is that he has to work twice as long or twice as hard to do it. It's basic maths.

If the OP has a problem, it is with the quoted price, not the number of people doing it. And the OP had the choice to obtain different quotes and made a decision to accept the quote, so their point is moot.

silverwhistle

OP, have you ever done any DIY? Sometimes jobs go a lot better than expected, other times something causes a problem and time needed goes up. I'm pretty sure most of us have experienced that. I always allow contingency even for the smallest job. I could have had a FF delivered today but chose tomorrow to be sure some small adjustments in the kitchen were done.


My GF does security installations of all sorts. She often finishes her working day with a visit to do a quotation. Some long term large clients may go on a time and materials basis because they trust her but otherwise she quotes for a job. On occasion she loses out: the time taken to go back and replace a faulty control panel, an unexpected difficulty arising who knows why. So on the phone to me she may lament the fact, but she honours her quote.


You should honour your commitment, and next time get more than one quote.

Greenyblades

Tradesman who knowingly made the price appear reasonable by saying 2 man job? Tradesman who never snagged job and wanted paid in full? Tradesman who knocked £50 off for a fair part of the job not required? Tradesman who won't be paying tax, NI or hold liability insurance?

Two can play that game. Snagged the job and told him he would be paid when job done including covering other trades costs for delays!

Doozergirl

This is exactly how it is. I fail to see how a qualified electrician can't be carrying insurance, but you can ask to see it. In fact, you should ask to see it!

Secondly, how do you know that he's not paying tax and NI? The only way you coupd know that is if you asked for a discount "for cash" and involved yourself in dishonesty. In which case, you get everything you ask for. Ask for someone dodgy who is happy to undermine the good guys and that is what you get.

Furts

Greenyblades wrote: »

Tradesman who knowingly made the price appear reasonable by saying 2 man job? Tradesman who never snagged job and wanted paid in full? Tradesman who knocked £50 off for a fair part of the job not required? Tradesman who won't be paying tax, NI or hold liability insurance?

Two can play that game. Snagged the job and told him he would be paid when job done including covering other trades costs for delays!

You duty was to do due diligence before you engaged the electrician. Clearly you failed here for whatever reason.

Your duty was then to draw up a Specification, arrange Buildings Regulations, engage with your legal duties under CDM Regs, manage, inspect, and all round be pro active.

It seems something went wrong. I suspect we have the classic case of a cowboy client engaging with a cowboy contractor. But here I have to defend cowboy contractors. Many do not set out to do bad work. Many do so because of the client's failings. Where do you stand here?

Clearly this was all a cash transaction, because you refer to this. A proper, professional approach by a client tends not to result in cash transactions. Cash transactions and good workmanship do not always go together. Cutting corners in collusion with the client is a typical scenario. Over to you on what may have been on your mind here.

Also your maths analysis does not stack up. The £1000 labour includes work not done so this is an unknown. Plus there is snagging to be done. Say the sum represents another day which gives 32 hours. More like £30 per hour which is a cheap electrician in many parts of the country.

All round you may have engaged a dubious character. But this is your fault. I am glad I do not work for you - to me you come across as a client from hell.

Greenyblades

He works for a company and does homers (cash) at evenings and weekends. Have 4 other trades (guys I know) and are all great with no issues. All very honest and great to get on with. Electrician on the other hand changed his attitude after sales pitch done. Surprised he didn't turn up with a plastic bag full of tools given quality of work.

Homers (cash) should benefit both parties - tradesman gets cash and customer gets a cheaper job done (albeit by a qualified tradesman).

Risteard

Greenyblades wrote: »

Homers (cash) should benefit both parties - tradesman gets cash and customer gets a cheaper job done (albeit by a qualified tradesman).

What are you talking about?

Homers (nixers) are illegal.

Doozergirl

Greenyblades wrote: »

Homers (cash) should benefit both parties - tradesman gets cash and customer gets a cheaper job done (albeit by a qualified tradesman).

Utter Bull. You behave dishonestly, encourage it in others and then try to call them out on it. Complete and utter hypocrisy. Your posting here for advice from genuine people make you look pathetic and is insulting to us.

You are a cowboy client of the highest order and I believe in karma. Enjoy it when it comes back for you because it will do on a regular basis. One reaps what one sows.