Overstay Guidance

momoneh

@twhitehousescat - good spot with the maths. I did see that it was under 3:20 but thought perhaps the receipts (had they been used) would demonstrate that the grace period wasn't availed (as they specify how long the car took to park/leave). That there were other occupants and the taxi example makes sense as an extra consideration now so I understand the relevance of being under the grace period in absolute terms.

I will send the template with the following added:

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

Further, according to the BPA Code of Practice under clause 13, a full 10 minutes should be given on entering the car park and another 10 minutes on exiting for reasons outlined in the code. In referencing the images that have been included in the Notice, the vehicle is alleged to have spent a total time of 3 hours, 19 minutes and 7 seconds on the parking site and so has not been subject to these grace periods. Since the code has been broken in this manner, it was incorrect to have requested the registered keeper details of this vehicle.

I have also attached two receipts generated at the time by an occupant of the vehicle which demonstrate patronage during the visit in question.


Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

momoneh

Just out of interest what is the significance of appealing as a keeper rather than anything else? I've tried searching to get to the bottom of this but am still unclear.

My best guess is that as a keeper the notice can then be shown to fail to explicitly advise on contacting the driver etc as per POFA (paragraph 9 in this case).

Umkomaas

Just out of interest what is the significance of appealing as a keeper rather than anything else? I've tried searching to get to the bottom of this but am still unclear.

The keeper maintains protection under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in the event that the PPC has screwed up in its timing and/or paperwork.

Appeal as the driver, even though the PPC has screwed up, the advantage switches to the PPC.

twhitehousescat

although you receipts may prove helpful , the ticket is for exceeding the parking time FULL STOP

the code of practice states the grace periods they HAVE TO ACCEPT , , not maybe or if they feel like it

they have not only failed to meet code of contract , but they have got your details from the DVLA without due cause

a complaint should be made to both the BPA and the DVLA regarding this

momoneh

I am happy to bring this to the attention of the BPA and DVLA - is there an existing effective route or should I start from scratch?

I also initially felt that the patronage aspect was orthogonal to the notice, but I have the feeling from the responses given that it can only help and not hinder to include them. Or is this a case of the less said the better?

Umkomaas

I am happy to bring this to the attention of the BPA and DVLA - is there an existing effective route or should I start from scratch?

aos@britishparking.co.uk - FTAO Mr Steve Clark

ccrt@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Redx

momoneh wrote: »

I am happy to bring this to the attention of the BPA and DVLA - is there an existing effective route or should I start from scratch?

I also initially felt that the patronage aspect was orthogonal to the notice, but I have the feeling from the responses given that it can only help and not hinder to include them. Or is this a case of the less said the better?

see the above for the complaints to be made


see also the above replies for why a keeper has more protection under the law than any driver, also bear in mind the police caution issued to those under arrest, or pleading the fifth in the us of a !!


the idea behind landowner or MA complaints is to make them see how issuing parking tickets to all and sundry is counter productive to the patronage of shoppers. one or more tickets and they dont go back, as staples found out in the BEAVIS case


putting forward the receipts at the initial appeal stage can mean the PPC contract forbids them from taking court action etc, these secret clauses in various contracts usually have a "minimum spend" and its been widely discussed on here over several years


in fact, I had relatives with similar issues to yours some 5 or more years ago with PE and they dropped it after the receipts were copied and produced at the initial KEEPER appeal stage- it was one of the reasons that I got into this topic in the first place !!


bear in mind that thousands of words have already been typed on these issues you mention, so using the forum search and doing the research more closely will always bring up similar issues to whatever you have


there is little or nothing new that can be written about this topic , even the MP,s know about it and debate it in the Scottish and English Parliaments at various times


https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

momoneh

An update: the appeal has been made online but no acknowledgement or receipt was received. The appeal did instruct Smart to only communicate by post. Would this be why or should I send a duplicate appeal?

Coupon-mad

Not if you are sure it went through.

There would have been a 'thankyou for your appeal' page which IS the acknowledgement, they won't also send a letter of acknowledgement, why would they?

Expect to hear nothing for a month then they will likely give up & cancel. Smart do swerve POPLA sometimes and just cancel when they have seen the template from here.

momoneh

I would have hoped at least an email acknowledgement would have been sent - otherwise what evidence is there that it was submitted on the date/time that it was? Unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to take a screenshot, but there didn't seem like there was anything relating to the particular PCN on that screen anyway.

If they were to give up, how would they notify of that? Or is it just a case of "no news is good news"?