Civil Enforcement Ltd - Number Plate Registration System, not used

CitizenSteve

Hi all

A mate of mine has a Civil Enforcement Ltd fine because I parked at a pub who have a contract with Civil Enforcement Ltd. Customers are supposed to enter their registration plates into an electronic system which then prevents the fine. He didn't do this but have emailed Civil Enforcement Ltd with proof of his custom (bank statement with pub and date clearly displayed), Civil Enforcement Ltd have written to him to tell him that his appeal was rejected.

So my questions...
1) Why is proof of is spending money in the establishment not proof? I was neglectful not to enter my number plate onto electronic system (apparently there are clear signs about this on the doors) but the whole system was implemented to prevent non customers exploiting the pub car park. They say that in not typing my details in, his vehicle was not authorised and that being a paying customer is not the issue. This reeks of predatory capitalism because the reason the landlord signed a contract with Civil Enforcement Ltd was because non customers were exploiting his car park !!!8211; I evidently don!!!8217;t fall into that category.
I guess what this boils down to is, is it right to fine people for being stupid / ignorant? I!!!8217;m sure many have fallen into this trap because they have other distractions on their mind.


2) I suspect that POPLA will reject his appeal so this will go to CCJ. I want to put his case to CCJ to appeal this but, as far as I know, it all happens in my absence and I don!!!8217;t get my say. IS this true?
3) I!!!8217;ve not found a thread to a similar predicament but would appreciate a link to one if someone has one.
All advice gratefully received. :beer:

Quentin

Everyone is politely asked to read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

Go there now to learn about the game you are now caught up in and how to deal with this

All your questions and misunderstanding will be cleared up by spending time studying the FAQ

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you

Loadsofchildren123

CitizenSteve wrote: »

So my questions...
1) Why is proof of spending money in the establishment not proof....neglectful not to enter the number plate onto electronic system (apparently there are clear signs about this on the doors - According to who? Go back and look at them. What do they say? How clear are they? Are they obvious? Are there other signs on the doors as well, which make it easy to miss these ones? Was there a sign IN the carpark? Was there a sign at the entrance to the car park? What did they say? ) but the whole system was implemented to prevent non customers exploiting the pub car park. They say that in not typing the details in, the vehicle was not authorised and that being a paying customer is not the issue. This reeks of predatory capitalism because the reason the landlord signed a contract with Civil Enforcement Ltd was because non customers were exploiting his car park !!!8211; the driver evidently doesn!!!8217;t fall into that category. Complain to the landlord, landlords can often get these things cancelled. But don't be a wallflower about it, push the point forcefully, let him know that if it isn't cancelled you and others like you will never go there again. Look at his tripadvisor reviews, if any, are there others on there complaining about being done like you have? Point this out to him.
I guess what this boils down to is, is it right to fine people for being stupid / ignorant? I!!!8217;m sure many have fallen into this trap because they have other distractions on their mind. Private parking companies are not reasonable, normal people. They target people like you. They do not listen to reasonable explanations or excuses, they don't care you were a pub patron. They just want your money.


2) I suspect that POPLA will reject the appeal so this will go to CCJ. no it won't. A CCJ is a county court judgment. Before you get that far, there will be a claim which you will defend. Please read up other CEL threads on here, CEL ALWAYS back out of well defended claims, but they don't do so until the very end, so you have to educate yourself, wise up and get ready. ......as far as I know, it all happens in my absence and I don!!!8217;t get my say. IS this true? What idiot told you that? You think a company can go and get a judgment against you and you aren't allowed to defend?????
3) I!!!8217;ve not found a thread to a similar predicament but would appreciate a link to one if someone has one. There are hundreds on here about CEL and lots of ones about pub car parks and lots about systems where patrons are allowed to sign into a tablet in the shop/bar/gym or wherever, but didn't realise because the SIGNS didn't make this CLEAR. Which I imagine is what happened in your case.
All advice gratefully received. :beer:

Comments above.
Look, you won't be spoon fed on here, if that's what you're hoping for. It's utter rubbish that there are no similar predicaments to yours on here. There are loads. Choose some CEL threads to read, and do an advanced search for ones about pub car parks as well, and tablets (to sign in on). You will find many. Read them and the Newbies thread to educate yourself. Then come back for help.




There are precedents for POPLA appeals. You really need to go back to the pub and look at the signs, as per my comments above, and also try to get the landlord to get it cancelled.
Make sure you keep your receipts.




Do not identify who the driver is. Refer to the driver in the third person. Eg don't say 2"/my brother parked in a pub car park and went in and used the pub", say "the driver parked...."

Umkomaas

Send in the (unaltered) template initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1, and on many occasions CEL fold at that stage. Try it and see, the worst you'll get is a POPLA Code that you can use to kill this.

beamerguy

CitizenSteve

CEL will reject anything that walks and talks as they
are simply scammers.

The landlord is your point of call .... why did his staff
not tell you about this .... get it cancelled or he will join
you in court.

The landlord did not do his homework first before
he took on CEL
Let him read this ...

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=CEL

If he let's the CEL rubbish to continue, he won't have
a pub in future

Loadsofchildren123

PS Power to the People

Umkomaas

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

PS Power to the People

You're starting to give clues about your age! :rotfl:

Coupon-mad

He didn't do this but have emailed Civil Enforcement Ltd with proof of his custom (bank statement with pub and date clearly displayed), Civil Enforcement Ltd have written to him to tell him that his appeal was rejected.

And in doing so he's blabbed about who was driving.

I wish people would research how to win an appeal, before they appeal.

If he had used the template in the NEWBIES thread he wouldn't even need POPLA. Now he is playing catch up, having thrown the 100% slam-dunk winning appeal point in the bin.

Loadsofchildren123

Citizen (as I mentally punch the air and shout out "Power to the People"), don't be disheartened if C-M is right, CEL do eventually go away (unlike other PPCs), it's just that you have to fight them all the way to achieve that, which is a PIA. So the silver lining is that it's CEL and not one of the others and you will get there in the end.


The shortcut to all of this is a visit to the landlord.

CitizenSteve

Thanks for all the info in the replies.

There is certainly some excellent stuff on here but, as someone pointed out, admitting that I drove when I appealed to CEL was, legally speaking, an own goal.
However, I want to contest this on the truth - i.e. I was a paying cutomer, the principle behind the parking rules is to protect the car park from exploitation from non customers, staff did not remind customers to input their numberplate onto the registration system.
Sadly, I can't find a case like this on MSE forum, even though I know there are many.
The suggestions re contacting the landlord are good, but I had already contacted the landlord before posting this - he was very unhelpful, in fact trip advisor reviews say he has a habit of not helping any of his costomers in this predicament.
So I'll appeal via POPLA today but I suspect that this will go to court.
Many thanks for the info in the responses.

Umkomaas

I want to contest this on the truth - i.e. I was a paying cutomer, the principle behind the parking rules is to protect the car park from exploitation from non customers, staff did not remind customers to input their numberplate onto the registration system.

Not much of that is going to work for you at POPLA.

Best you find a recent 'CEL POPLA' appeal and use that as the base for your own. If you've identified the driver then leave out anything relating to PoFA.

Let us see your draft before submitting it.

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