Parking Ticket in My Spot - Appeal Rejected - P4Parking

Castle

MercilessKiller wrote: »

". In his mind, the contract with P4Parking does state that management of the contract is to be carried out by BRAM (as the agent) - now HML Group - so it must come from then.

So how did the contract between BRAM and P4Parking get transferred to HML group?

MercilessKiller

1) I appealed to P4Parking first - I haven't receive an NTK through the post yet and also only registered as a Keeper on the appeal.

2) Apparently we would have notified them that HML Group are the new management company. I havent confirmed this.

nosferatu1001

Thats not the same question, at all
WHen the new company took over, any existing contracts woudl not automatcially transfer - depending on clause they would have to be either novated across to the new name, or renegotiated.

MercilessKiller

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Thats not the same question, at all
WHen the new company took over, any existing contracts woudl not automatcially transfer - depending on clause they would have to be either novated across to the new name, or renegotiated.

Right but my point is I don't know the answer and neither does the Director for sure. He said that as the contract is with the "Client" (which is NSQ Residents Management Company) then the contract would still be valid even with a change in Management Company.

However, I do question the validity of the contract and that would be another argument if this thing did progress. I'm hoping we don't get that far at this point..

MercilessKiller

Another quick update - I received a response from one of the heads at HML Group who has confirmed he's reviewing the situation (it was new to him). He replied to me very quickly asking me to confirm a few more details (including providing the P4Contract I was already sent by one of his colleagues interestingly).

They've confirmed they will come back to me next week with next steps and put an informal note wishing me a good weekend.

Am I right to be getting excited? It feels like suddenly someone here is on my side.

NeilCr

MercilessKiller wrote: »

Right but my point is I don't know the answer and neither does the Director for sure. He said that as the contract is with the "Client" (which is NSQ Residents Management Company) then the contract would still be valid even with a change in Management Company.

However, I do question the validity of the contract and that would be another argument if this thing did progress. I'm hoping we don't get that far at this point..

I'd have thought he was right if the contract is between P4Parking and NSQRMC.

HML and BRAM are Managing Agents/Property Managers and work for NSQRMC. I think it's a bit confusing calling them all Management Companies.

MercilessKiller

NeilCr wrote: »

I'd have thought he was right if the contract is between P4Parking and NSQRMC.

HML and BRAM are Managing Agents/Property Managers and work for NSQRMC. I think it's a bit confusing calling them all Management Companies.

While I agree, the P4Parking contract term for BRAM is "Management Company".
I must admit, this whole thing has been new and confusing to me personally too so trying to get my head around it all. Managing Agent does sound right.

Coupon-mad

Just to add to be careful what you wish for - I would NOT push for P4Parking to be kicked out if the MA insist on another scum firm taking their place.

You have there a firm who don't litigate, and with a clause that works in your favour. And they are BPA so POPLA applies, and as you've been told (and we know) P4Parking are dead easy to beat at POPLA. So if you must have a PPC scumbag, they are among the easier scumbags to beat!

Your alternative to that, if they are kicked out, is the likes of:

VCS
Link Parking
UKPC
UKCPM

...all of whom typically infest residential car parks, and who are far nastier a prospect, and litigious and the majority with no POPLA (only UKPC and I'd rather have P4Parking then them, any day).

The_Deep

Indeed, UKPC have been caught out several times doctoring photographs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

Loadsofchildren123

It won't catch you out, imo, if you didn't "correctly" lodge your VRM.
I doubt they told you how to register it, just that you should register it. So you sensibly went along to the front desk, your only point of contact, and gave it to them. In return you got a permit. So you were entitled to assume that you had done all required of you - they had your VRM, they issued a permit with the VRM on it. Nothing to suggest that you needed to do anything else and they didn't say that you should do anything in addition to or instead of what you'd already done. If they didn't pass on your VRM to the powers that be, that's their lookout not yours.


It's really annoying that you've been banging your head against a brick wall dealing with some silly front office person who knows nothing and hasn't even been passing the information on to a person who could have helped you. Make sure Mr Big Cheese knows that this has created a lot of extra work for you and that it just isn't right or fair, they owe a duty to manage the estate in the best interests of the freeholder and the leaseholders, whilst maintaining the residents' right to quiet enjoyment of their properties.


They haven't got a leg to stand on with that clause and my guess is that they now realise that.


CM is right. You want to keep P4 and that contract, so keep it up your sleeve about whether the transfer of the contract from the original MC to the new one is valid. it probably isn't. It sounds unlikely that they would have been that organised to have novated their various contracts.


I'd copy that contract, highlight the smoking gun clause and then do a short note to all residents about how they can defeat PCNs issued to their vehicles parked in their own spaces by simply insisting on their cancellation, the contact name and number for them to do so, and then deliver them to all your neighbours. I'd never personally recommend wallpaper pasting these notes onto P4's signs, because there may be a criminal offence there somewhere, although I could see the temptation....


I'd also make sure that your point of contact (can't remember the different entities names off the top of my head) understands the meaning of that clause and the process for getting similar PCNs cancelled so that next time one of the residents is in your shoes it gets dealt with quickly and properly. You've had to do a lot of work and it just isn't right. Many others in your shoes would have fallen at a hurdle way further back than the one you're jumping now.


When this is over, ask about opting out in respect of your space. Then put a sign up on the wall in front of your car stating that you have opted out and nobody is to set foot on your space or to touch your car without your express permission and to do so in the absence of such permission is a TRESPASS and you will have no hesitation in enforcing your rights.