Parking Ticket in My Spot - Appeal Rejected - P4Parking

Fruitcake

MercilessKiller wrote: »

Ha - I work in a US tech company I'm afraid. We're more used to using interrobangs than correct formal english. I do appreciate the heads up though Changed.

If this gets to court, you will need to use proper formal English as spoked by Her Maj, not some colonial speak.

MercilessKiller

Ha - I am English - just too much time working for Americans I think

Thanks for everyones advice. I'll wait till next week before sending the letter to see if there's other thoughts first. I hastily did the appeals and don't want to make the same mistake now, but definitely don't want to wait before going on the aggressive and getting this thing ripped up.

MercilessKiller

Hi All

I received the below response from the development management company:

Dear Joshua,



The reason that there is parking control in place is because that it is a public road with demised spaces which means that the local authority will not assist you if someone decided to park in your space and given how close the development is to both transport links and a retail park, if there was no parking control in place, there is no doubt that you would regularly experience issues with people parking in your space. We are unable to connect registrations to parking spaces as we do not have a schedule of spaces so could not even tell you what number space bellows to which flat, the handover information only confirmed who did / did not own a space; we have requested ownership details from both the previous management company and the developer, but neither has been able to provide this information.



The decision to put parking control in place was taken before we were appointed [ADDITION FROM MERCILESS: the previous management company appointed P4Parking], but I'd be happy to put it forward at the next board that you would like this contract cancelled and can let you know the outcome.



With regards to your current ticket, I am afraid you need to contact P4Parking directly as they are the only company that can cancel your ticket. I would like to take this opportunity to inform you that the site staff are not linked to P4Parking and cannot assist you, nor should they be blamed for your ticket being issued.



Kind regards,



[Name revoked by Merciless - trying to protect personal info etc]
MIRPM, AssocRICS
Regional Business Development Manager

A few things to note:

1) I am parked in an underground secure car park and not on a "public road". It requires a key fob for access. There are above ground spaces on the road but that's not where I am (and my spot, including a map of spots, is within the lease)

2) They say they are unable to connect registrations to parking spaces - This isn't true. My permit clearly has my registration on, and the parking space.

3) They confirmed they can not cancel the ticket and say they are not responsible for the ticket being issued, and I must talk with P4Parking

Any suggestions on how to respond? It appears they are claiming they aren't liable for the ticket before P4Parking wasn't their choice, and they have no ability to get P4Parking to cancel the ticket.

Looks like they're not interested in helping me at all at this point.

Loadsofchildren123

Respond with the points you've made, all perfectly valid. Particularly the lie that they can't/don't connect parking spaces with flats and spaces because both are on your permit.
You might like to throw in a scary paragraph about GDPR. I know nothing about this of any use to anyone, but others do. It must be a breach of your personal data protection rights for them to display your address! And P4 is acting as THEIR agent. I assume the permit comes from P4 and not the management company?




Also complain loudly about this:
we do not have a schedule of spaces so could not even tell you what number space bellows to which flat, the handover information only confirmed who did / did not own a space; we have requested ownership details from both the previous management company and the developer, but neither has been able to provide this information.
It's not your fault that they appear incompetent. If they are acting as agent of the freeholder in introducing regulations, then they are deemed to have this information and it's not your fault as an innocent resident that they are incapable of obtaining it.

MercilessKiller

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Respond with the points you've made, all perfectly valid. Particularly the lie that they can't/don't connect parking spaces with flats and spaces because both are on your permit.
You might like to throw in a scary paragraph about GDPR. I know nothing about this of any use to anyone, but others do. It must be a breach of your personal data protection rights for them to display your address! And P4 is acting as THEIR agent. I assume the permit comes from P4 and not the management company?




Also complain loudly about this:
we do not have a schedule of spaces so could not even tell you what number space bellows to which flat, the handover information only confirmed who did / did not own a space; we have requested ownership details from both the previous management company and the developer, but neither has been able to provide this information.
It's not your fault that they appear incompetent. If they are acting as agent of the freeholder in introducing regulations, then they are deemed to have this information and it's not your fault as an innocent resident that they are incapable of obtaining it.

Thanks for the quick response.

The permit is provided by the management company at the development. It does appear to be a P4Parking permit, but we get it by going to concierge and asking for one basically. They then get it processed. I'm obviously interested to know how they do this if they don't have the records of who owns what space (I believe they ask to see the residence lease agreement).

Either way, I'll respond to them with all the points. Thank you!

Loadsofchildren123

Do NOT let the management company fob you off


The PPC is acting as THEIR agent. Their predecessor brought the PPC in, but that's irrelevant.


They are breaching your rights under your lease, in particular your rights to that specific space and your right to quiet enjoyment.


You have no relationship with P4 whatsoever and one cannot be imposed upon you. You have pre-existing parking rights. You will not be fobbed off by being told to deal with P4. P4 were brought in by the management company and act as their agents and they must involve themselves in this manner otherwise you will be making a claim against them,


Personally I'd do EXACTLY what hairray did. Otherwise you'll continue to be fobbed off. The whole point of hairray's letters was that they were aggressive and legally/factually correct. The management company had tried to fob him off too, but when they got those letters there was an immediately climb down.

MercilessKiller

Thanks LOC. I got another response and this now adds another company into the mix:

Dear Mr Sugarman,



HML Group are not party to a contract with P4Parking, but as I have already said, I!!!8217;d be happy to put forward your argument to NSQ Residents Management Company Ltd for the contract to be cancelled, however, we will not be able to assist if your space is misused which is also the case in underground parking garages as we!!!8217;ve experienced this issue elsewhere in the past.



With regards to GDPR, we have not released any information to any external companies !!!8211; it would be in breach of our Data Protection policy to do so.



With regards to the schedule of parking spaces, Barratt Homes claims that they did not keep a record of which spaces they allocate, the only way which we could obtain this information is to obtain a copy of every lease and check them which is not an efficient use of service charge funds.



As stated previously, I would suggest you contact P4 Parking as once you have proven that you do have a permit, they may be able to cancel your ticket.



Kind regards,



Sara

NSQ Residents Management Company Ltd is a new company name I hadn't heard of before. HML Group are the management company that run the development (Previously it was BRAM who the residential board voted to replace with HML Group).

Does this mean I'm sending letters to the wrong people?

From reading Hairray's case it appears the GDPR reference is related to data processing and the management company's liability if P4Parking cease to terminate processing my data *after* I notify them to stop. So I may follow that up separately.

I haven't yet confirmed with Sara that I have already "lost" my appeal with P4Parking, but then again, I also haven't messaged P4Parking at all since that appeal was denied. Potentially I should follow this advice and email P4Parking with these same legal arguments?

I would point out that on the website for information about our property, it specifically states:
"Congratulations on purchasing your new home at New South Quarter, a development maintained by HML." I notice the word "maintained" instead of managed, though there is no reference anywhere on the site as to the NSQ Residents Management Company LTD.

The website does contain instructions such as:
"You must have consent from us before making any structural alterations to your apartment"

The "us" is meaning HML Group in this case.

So I'm a little confused here - Any thoughts?

MercilessKiller

Looking at company house, it appears the previous management company owned NSQ Residents Management LTD and now HML Group own them?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06393192/filing-history

NeilCr

That reads to me as though you guys own the freehold and HML are the managing agents. Do you know any of the people listed as directors? They might be worth approaching

Have you seen this forum

http://www.nsqresidents.co.uk/archive/index.php

MercilessKiller

Hmm this is getting even more confusing then. See this from my service charge (Mainstay) collector:

This notice is given by your landlord: Aviva Investors GR SPV16 Limited of c/o Mainstay Residential Limited Whittington Hall Whittington Road Worcester WR5 2ZX

That forum is a private forum that some residents created. I've posted on there a few times - it's used by about 10 people (development has around 1000).

I can certainly ask on that forum however. I do not know any of the names on that company house page but have noticed the company address is the HML Group address. They obviously act on behalf of them anyway.


Is this going to change things and who I need to contact? Thank you!