Apple Pay in Asda/Lidl

Anthorn

SuperHan wrote: »

It doesn!!!8217;t circumvent anything - ApplePay requires two step authorisation (unlike contactless which is just one step), so ApplePay is at least as secure as chip and pin (or in some cases significantly more secure, I have an 8 digit password with letters numbers and punctuation to use ApplePay, much more secure than a 4 digit PIN). It!!!8217;s this additional security that means some retailers have lifted the £30 contactless limit for mobile payments. Hopefully more will follow suit!

Not true: Apple Pay is a contactless payment. To verify that try using Apple Pay on a terminal which is not contactless. The major security feature of contactless is that there is a maximum spend beyond which a PIN has to be entered. What Apple Pay does is make every transaction a PIN transaction but that doesn't alter the FACT that Apple Pay is contactless and should therefore be subject to the contactless security features. Take a look at the till receipt when you've used Apple Pay: I'd guess probably quite rightly that it says the payment is Contactless and no PIN has been used and that serves to underline what I just said. If it dispenses with the security feature then the security feature is circumvented. Simple.

Unlike you I don't use a PIN, I use my fingerprint.

Anyway back to the topic, personally I have never experienced a minimum spend when using Apple Pay at any retailer at all, not even my local Premier shop!

knack92

Anthorn wrote: »

Not true: Apple Pay is a contactless payment. To verify that try using Apple Pay on a terminal which is not contactless. The major security feature of contactless is that there is a maximum spend beyond which a PIN has to be entered. What Apple Pay does is make every transaction a PIN transaction but that doesn't alter the FACT that Apple Pay is contactless and should therefore be subject to the contactless security features. Take a look at the till receipt when you've used Apple Pay: I'd guess probably quite rightly that it says the payment is Contactless and no PIN has been used and that serves to underline what I just said. If it dispenses with the security feature then the security feature is circumvented. Simple.

Unlike you I don't use a PIN, I use my fingerprint.

Anyway back to the topic, personally I have never experienced a minimum spend when using Apple Pay at any retailer at all, not even my local Premier shop!

The £30 limit on contactless is in place because there is no security features. Apple Pay has a security feature in the form of passcode/biometrics so the £30 limit is not required.

I was in France recently and using contactless over a certain amount prompted for the pin, but you didn’t have to insert the card like you have to here. What do you think of this?

20aday

knack92 wrote: »

The £30 limit on contactless is in place because there is no security features. Apple Pay has a security feature in the form of passcode/biometrics so the £30 limit is not required.

I was in France recently and using contactless over a certain amount prompted for the pin, but you didn’t have to insert the card like you have to here. What do you think of this?

Looking at Apple’s website here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht207435 in some countries you have to enter a PIN or sign a receipt over certain amounts.

I don’t know how it would be set up technically but seeing as you have to enter a PIN every X amount of contactless transactions within the UK if the system was able to distinguish between a physical card and a digitised wallet (I assume it’s possible) then it’d save time having to dig your bit of plastic out when using Apple Pay & it prompts for a random security check?

AndyPix

Anthorn wrote: »

In my case at least not true: I use Apple Pay in all three of those stores for anything even for amounts of no more than a fiver. On the rare occasions I shop in Tesco I always use PayQwik.

In fact I could go further and recognise that the £30 lower limit stated in the quoted post should actually be the upper limit allowed for contactless payments. I do know that some retailers allow mobile contactless payments beyond the contactless upper limit but that circumvents the security of contactless.

Probably the only problem I've found is when my Amex card is linked to Apple Pay and the store doesn't accept Amex contactless, i.e. Wilko.

You woefully missed the point here ..


There is no LOWER limit - with either apple pay or traditional contactless.


There is an UPPER limit of £30 for traditional contactless, that has been set aside by many retailers due to the added security of biometrics or passcode on the Apple device.


I personally think Apple pay is awesome, to the tune that i dont even carry my wallet much anymore.
Just whip out my phone and wave it at the till (with my thumb on the thumbprint reader) - even for the Saturday big shop

Anthorn

AndyPix wrote: »

You woefully missed the point here ..


There is no LOWER limit - with either apple pay or traditional contactless.


There is an UPPER limit of £30 for traditional contactless, that has been set aside by many retailers due to the added security of biometrics or passcode on the Apple device.


I personally think Apple pay is awesome, to the tune that i dont even carry my wallet much anymore.
Just whip out my phone and wave it at the till (with my thumb on the thumbprint reader) - even for the Saturday big shop

You posted almost exactly what I posted which means that you agree with me. It's not me who is saying there is a lower limit, it's the OP. Perhaps if you read through this thread it might be constructive.

My other main point is that Apple Pay circumvents the contactless upper limit which is £30 when I last looked. That upper contactless limit is there for a purpose and that purpose is to limit loss. Those who agree with that upper limit being circumvented probably deserve to be defrauded.

Oh yes I use Apple Pay too. But I don't leave my wallet at home because there are those times when Apple Pay doesn't work and that as far as I can see is due to retailer error. In short, always have a back-up.

knack92

20aday wrote: »

Looking at Apple’s website here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht207435 in some countries you have to enter a PIN or sign a receipt over certain amounts.

I don’t know how it would be set up technically but seeing as you have to enter a PIN every X amount of contactless transactions within the UK if the system was able to distinguish between a physical card and a digitised wallet (I assume it’s possible) then it’d save time having to dig your bit of plastic out when using Apple Pay & it prompts for a random security check?

Sorry I could have been more clear. I was taking about using a contactless card, allowing you to make a payment over the limit by contactless and then authorising by card pin.

I was interested to know what Anthorn thought of this because if they think it’s secure then there’s no reason why they shouldn’t think Apple Pay is secure. If Anthorn doesn’t think it’s secure then why? It’s contactless+pin instead of chip+pin.

takman

Anthorn wrote: »

My other main point is that Apple Pay circumvents the contactless upper limit which is £30 when I last looked. That upper contactless limit is there for a purpose and that purpose is to limit loss. Those who agree with that upper limit being circumvented probably deserve to be defrauded.

The £30 for contactless on cards is to prevent the bank having to pay out for fraud; it isn't for the consumers benefit because banks will refund any contactless payments reported as fraudulent without question.

Apple Pay (and similar) doesn't "circumvent" the limit it simply has a different limit because it operates in a different way (security wise).
On my phone i have to unlock it (with my fingerprint) to make a contactless payment of ANY amount. This means it is more secure than even chip and pin because no matter what methods they use they can not make a record of my fingerprint (while making a payment) to fraudulently make payments using my phone.
Compared to chip and pin where it's possible to see someones pin, steal their card and use it.

venomx

The following are a list of UK retailers that will accept Apple Pay transactions over £30.

Clothes and fashion :
Burberry
Dune
New Look
Uniqlo

Fuel :
BP
Shell

Grocery :
Aldi
Co-op
Home Bargains
Lidl
Marks & Spencer
Morrisons
Sainsbury!!!8217;s
Waitrose

Restaurants :
Bill!!!8217;s
Burger & Lobster
Caf! Rouge
Costa
McDonald!!!8217;s
Nando!!!8217;s
Pizza Express
Pizza Hut
Pret a Manger
Starbucks
TGI Fridays
Wagamamas
Wetherspoons

Other Retailers :
Apple Stores
Argos
Boots
Cabs
Halfords
Harvey Nichols
Hotel Chocolat
Ikea
Liberty
Moto Services
Nike
Specsavers
Superdrug
Transport for London

Dandytf

@venom.x

Excellent list, I need to make a +30 purchase soon.

Anthorn

knack92 wrote: »

Sorry I could have been more clear. I was taking about using a contactless card, allowing you to make a payment over the limit by contactless and then authorising by card pin.

I was interested to know what Anthorn thought of this because if they think it’s secure then there’s no reason why they shouldn’t think Apple Pay is secure. If Anthorn doesn’t think it’s secure then why? It’s contactless+pin instead of chip+pin.

If you attempt to make a contactless transaction over the upper limit the terminal asks for the PIN. In that case it's not a contactless transaction but a chip and PIN transaction. There is thus no such thing as contactless+PIN. It's either contactless or chip n pin. As has been exhaustively explained Apple Pay circumvents that.

It's only as secure as the card and PIN or in the case of contactless the card itself or in the case of mobile payments the mobile device.