What does this leasehold clause actually mean about having pets?

LizzieC2018

Hi there lovely people!

I'm a first time buyer, first leashold flat has just fallen through, however we've just put an offer in on a new place and it's been accepted

Could anyone advise me/share their experience on what the following clause actually means regarding pets?

'Not to keep any dog or other animal bird or pet whatsoever in the premises so as to cause a nuisance or annoyance to the other occupiers of the Property'

Does this clause mean that pets are allowed as long as they do not cause any nuisance or annoyance to the other occupiers? (ie If the dog barked a lot, made a mess, if any of the other occupiers complained about the dog etc etc)

Once we are settled in the flat my dream is to get a dog, so it's not an immediate issue but I like to plan ahead! This flat is a 2 bed ground floor flat and there are about 5 other flats in the building. Our flat has it's own courtyard and private entrance via the courtyard, so we'd never have to take the dog through the interior communal areas, plus we are very close to the beach and a park, so will always take the dog out for walks. Additionally I work from home mostly so the dog won't be left on their own for long periods of time..

We do have a solicitor engaged and I of course will get their legal advce on Monday. But I'm hoping any replies to my thread will help me make sense of the clause - any maybe stop me worrying! - in the meantime.

Many, many thanks all

NeilCr

I'd say it means you can have a pet but it must not cause any nuisance.

Problem is, of course, the definition of nuisance. I have people next door to me who have dogs. They bark a bit but it doesn't bother me as I am an animal lover. Others may take a different view and the property manager/freeholder/management company will then fall back on the "nuisance" clause.

Is the block owned by the residents? If it is I'd suggest a chat with any directors and, anyway, your neighbours to get a sense of how they feel about it. You will have to live close to these folks so any dispute re animal nuisance could be a problem

LizzieC2018

Thanks Neil, that's really helpful advice, much appreciate. The block is owned and managed by the company that rennovated it in 2007, which is a company based in the same town where the flat is located (Worthing). Maybe I could give that company a call on Monday, to have a chat and I certainly could go back to chat to the other residents next week.

Thanks again!

iammumtoone

If you are really set on having a dog I would back out.


It may not be an issue now or even when you get your dog but all it will take is a couple of grumpy people to move in to complain that your dog is causing a nuisance. You could have the best behaved dog in the world but how would you go about proving it?

LizzieC2018

Thanks iammumtoo - it's something for me to think about, the problem is I can't afford a house and I've come to realise most leaseholds seem to have a rule like this - or you can get permission from the leaseholder for a pet once you have completed various forms etc, but that they still have the right to withdraw the permission at any time (so I feel like it's almost the same risk.)

PasturesNew

One of the problems around "nuisance" is that you might have a lovely dog - but the neighbours have rotten children ... and when you're out the rotten children might be doing things that directly cause the dog to bark.

The children will not be deemed a nuisance.
Your lovely dog might be.

It's not as simple as "our dog doesn't bark"... it might be "our dog doesn't bark when we're at home, but when the 3-4 kids next door are playing football in the garden and hitting the fence with their ball our dog barks if we're not at home and we don't even know about it".

davidmcn

Bear in mind that if your dog causes a legal nuisance, neighbours have remedies anyway irrespective of what the title deeds say. And it probably needs to be a real problem for anyone to choose to spend time and money starting legal action!

LizzieC2018

Quick update! The seller of the flat turns out to also be the owner of the whole building, and he kept the lease on two of the flats in the building to rent out. Now he's selling both of those flats to invest in a new project. He has said normally he wouldn't allow pets but he will make an exception for us, of course on the proviso that the dog does not cause any problems/disturbance. I will of course speak to my solicitor on Monday to make sure we can get this in writing or get the lease amended accordingly, and then down the line when I am able to get dog, it will be OK.

Thanks for your help everyone!

need_an_answer

Pet leases can be interpreted in whatever way the person using them to their advantage wants!

I have had quite extensive dealings with management companies and pet leases over the past 5 years and the experience is mixed although the wording is usually along the lines you have quoted.

In property 1 we were led to believe that a dog would be allowed on the agreement of the directors. We were eventually overtuned and the answer was a resounding no even after paying quite a hefty charge to the management company even though they knew the answer would be no.

Property 2 the dog consent was granted after another hefty charge paid to managing agents but it does come with the clause that it can be revoked at any time if there is a disturbance

Property 3 no charge and an unconditional yes granted within half an hour of the request being submitted.

My honest advice would be if there is a condition in the lease re pet consent and there are no pets at the complexes that have set a precedent walk away.

It is always easier to justify if there is already one pet there but don't automatically think you can sweet talk anyone into making the decision you want...I've come to learn that some management companies just wont allow pets,and some have a real issue with dogs.


Unless you can get a no condition agreement you will always be at the mercy of someone making a complaint,sometimes justified or you may end up with someone who makes it their goal to rid the place of your pet.

That's no way for you your dog to be "managed" by.

LizzieC2018

Thank you needananswer - that is really useful advice. I'm a lot more hopeful now I've had the information that the owner of the building has said yes verbally, but I know that doesn't really mean anything till it's in writing, so I will proceed carefully with the solicitors to make sure its confirmed in writing.

Thanks again

davidmcn

LizzieC2018 wrote: »

Thank you needananswer - that is really useful advice. I'm a lot more hopeful now I've had the information that the owner of the building has said yes verbally, but I know that doesn't really mean anything till it's in writing, so I will proceed carefully with the solicitors to make sure its confirmed in writing.

But unless there's another clause you haven't told us about, there's no need for you to get consent?