Euro Car Parks overstay at Gym - Do I put this in the initial appeal

julienetmum

Hi,


I found this forum very useful a couple of years ago when my company received several unfair parking fines (late NTK & signage not legal). My brother has asled me to help him with a "fine" he has just received.


I have had a refresh of the newbies thread and am planning on using the template but basically a family member has been a paying member of a gym for several years now (£500 per year membership no less). The gym is located near to a Premiership Football Club. There are cameras on the entrance and signs up but up until now the only parking restrictions have been on Match Days. Gym members are required to sign in a Reception on a Match Day.


Unknown to them new restrictions have been brought in. There are signs up at the entrance but he failed to notice that there was now a 4 hour limit regardless of whether he signed in or not. (Yes they spend up to 5 hours at the gym)



Now having previously ploughed my way through some of the POFA stuff before I remember that there is something about having to have a reasonable bedding in period if major changes are made. No-one at the gym informed them of these changes and they have (so far) told him there is nothing they can do. He will of course be formally complaining as what's the point of paying for membership if he can't use the facilities in the way he wants (its a gym, swimming pool, bar/cafe type set up)


So my question is shoudl I add to the template something about there not being reasonable notice about any changes to parking arrangments.



Also the template says about the notice not being large enough etc. Should we put that even if the signs are clear (I'm going to see if I can go up to look for myself). They admit there were signs but as a gym user of several years standing he didn't think to read them.

Quentin

If you know a bit about Pofa then you know not to reveal who was driving!

Edit your post to remove details of who was driving

The FAQ advises a two pronged way to go. Appeal and complain to the retailer

Send appeal as is

Umkomaas

Add nothing to the template - use 'as is'.

Also the template says about the notice not being large enough etc. Should we put that even if the signs are clear (I'm going to see if I can go up to look for myself).

How would you know that if you've never seen them. Seems like your brother didn't notice them either. Hardly 'clear' I would suggest.

How will you assess the signs? Are you au fait with the various requirements about size of signs/fonts, colours, content required by the PPC's ATA's Code of Practice?

Has your brother demanded that the gym gets this cancelled? Is he prepared to cancel his membership to try to force their hand?

Hopefully if volunteers are going to give freely of their time to help, you will be good enough to inform us of the final outcome of the case. It's so frustrating to put lots of effort in, then to find no final outcome. We get nothing out of this, only the satisfaction of seeing advice coming to a conclusion - whichever way it falls.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5343792/pcn-but-parked-in-private-compound

julienetmum

He says that there was a sign but as he has been visiting the gym every day for the last 5 years he did not think to read it.


Yes, he went into reception and complained but they told him there was nothing they could do. I have advised him to write a very strongly worded letter to the manager threatening to cancel his membership.



He's getting a bit antsy about the "fine" going up in another 7 days. I have asked if if he is prepared to see this through in the long run eg. is he prepared to go all the way/call their bluff or not?


With regards to the signs. No, I don;t know all those ins and outs but in the previosu case I was involved with I was able to ascertain very quickly that the signs were not legal in the fact that there were no signs located in the area the driver in that case parked in and the only way to read any signs would have been to pull up on double yellow lines and get out of the car.


I'm trying to find the information I saw previously about new/changed arrangments and having a reasonable period of time for people to get used to it. I previosuly wrote the following: "where there is any change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you should make these clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you should consider a grace period to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. This was back in 2015 however and I can't remember where I got that from.


I apologise if members feel I did not update correctly 3 years ago. As I stated back then one of the charges was cancelled and the other was awaiting investigation. I then went on holiday and received no further correspondance from the parking company.

Redx

parking companies have 6 years to try a court claim , so anything after june 2012 is "fair game"

sometimes people overthink this topic, they then blow their own toes off instead of just doing what they are told in that NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread

few people understand the technicalities regarding signage , so just assume it fails any reasonable test unless a PPC can prove otherwise to a judge, so if it fails LORD DENNINGS red hand rule, its not adequate

the BPA CoP 2018 deals with stuff like "bedding in times" , this CoP changes regularly so always look at the one in force on the incident date

for now there are 2 things to do

1) use the template appeal "as is" and appeal using the manner they describe on the NTK, as keeper , not revealing who was driving to anyone at all , no ifs , no buts

then take it to popla if they wont cancel it

meanwhile, a strongly worded complaint to the gym manager about lack of information being given by employees to customers, plus poor and inadequate signage around the gym too

we see gym pcn,s almost daily on here, so much so its become a tsunami , so these gyms need to take responsibility for paying customers and treat them properly

just do as we tell you , not what you "think you should do"

julienetmum

I've been thinking about it and I have conme to the conclusion that I just can't deal with this at the moment due to having lots of family things to deal with (very ill husband and a daughter having problems at school). I'm having anxiety just trying to get through my own life at the moment.



He wants me to write a letter to the gym but he needs to do it and research it himself.



Thank-you to those who have been helpful.

System

Try estoppel as a defence

"the principle which precludes a person from asserting something contrary to what is implied by a previous action or statement of that person or by a previous pertinent judicial determination"

Simply put that unless the variation in terms were made clear to those using the gym for a very long time, then they are estopped from relying on the new terms (for this ticket only)

The BPA Code of Practice has a reference to changes in terms and bringing it to the notice of drivers.

I could find it for you but as you say "he needs to do it and research it himself. " Its a 2 minute job to find it.

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

waamo

All he has to do at this stage is cut and paste the appeal template and also complain to the gym.

It really is that easy at this point.

julienetmum

I'm going to ask one more question if I may - of course I understand if people don't wish to answer as its more thinking further down the line.



I will be advising them not to name the driver but as all gym member have to sign in and out of the gym and only members are entitled to park won't it be obvious who the driver is anyway.

waamo

He could have had a lift so no it isn't a given.