Potential chimney stack dispute

djdust

Hi all

Am having problems with the neighbours again... :eek:

Two years ago they build a lean-to conservatory at the back of their house, that I discussed in a previous thread. Back then, they at least consulted with me (eventually) and we managed to get the matter pretty much resolved, although it was telling they got actual planning permission for the work they had done several months after it was actually completed. This time, they're being even sneakier...

A week ago, they started having some major work done on the inside of their house, looks like the place is being completely gutted and rebuilt. I first became aware when the banging started on the walls and I could hear the plaster crumbling away. After a few hours of it, the builder, Rob, came round and made a point of introducing himself to me and checking I wasn't being disturbed too much and explaining what was going on. He was surprised straight away as he'd been told by his clients that they'd already advised me of what was going on, yet they very definitely hadn't, this was the first I'd heard of it! He left me his card and said to get in touch if had any concerns at all. Seemed like a nice, professional bloke, the complete opposite of the complete cretin they'd got in to do the previous work two years ago...

Rob knocked on my door again on Saturday afternoon and came in for a chat and to update me of what was going on... First up, he was concerned that, despite the fact that there's a clear "KEEP OUT, UNSAFE" notice up on the front of the house and the neighbours have been told to stay away while the work is done, for obvious health and safety reasons, they're still continuing to use the house for baths, etc. anyway. He also advised that he and his sub-contractors were very likely going to be withdrawing from the job as they weren't prepared to put up with the extremely rude and aggressive way they were being treated anymore.

The most concerning thing that Rob advised me of was that, the neighbour apparently wants the joint chimney stack (that I share with them) removed from the top of the house. He told them he couldn't do that without going through a lot of checks and making sure I, the neighbour, was consulted about it. He was told very clearly that they *had* spoken to me about it, I had 100% given my full blessing and, get this, he was not to talk to me about it as I did not want to be disturbed and didn't want to discuss the matter further..

Unbelievable.

Rob said this had rung massive alarm bells with him as I'd already told him before that they'd lied to me about letting me know there was building work coming up, hence his visit to come let me know the score. He said he'd chat with me again tonight and update me on what the situation was but, understandably, if he really does exit the job, there's nothing to stop them getting in another cowboy like last time who may happily do the job for them and not ask too many questions...

I've been doing a bit of Googling but am not really getting any firm answers so far so would appreciate some advice. Does a chimney stack count like a party wall? If work is done on it, does planning permission need to be obtained from the local council?

Cheers

Doozergirl

I'm not sure why we quite needed the gossip that occured, but still...

Planning permission is not needed unless you are in a designated area (conservation, aonb etc) or a listed building.

It is the territory of the Party Wall Act. They can't remove something that belongs to you without permission anyway, so if you're not in agreement, that's the end of it. You don't need professionals in if you point blank disagree.

They can remove their side of the chimnry breast and support it appropriately under with Building Control Approval.

In theory, removal of the chimeny breat also falls under the PWA but in reality, most people aren't bothered as it's a simple case of cutting away a protrusion from the party wall and not all that exciting. Damage is highly unlikely next door.

djdust

Doozergirl wrote: »

I'm not sure why we quite needed the gossip that occured, but still...

Well, pardon me. Just trying to give a flavour of the kind of people I'm dealing with.

Doozergirl wrote: »

It is the territory of the Party Wall Act. They can't remove something that belongs to you without permission anyway, so if you're not in agreement, that's the end of it. They can remove their side of the chimnry breast and support it appropriately under with Building Control Approval.

Ok, but what if I was to come home one day and find it's all been taken down anyway and I wasn't consulted. Where would I stand then? If I see work being done up there, do I have the right to ask exactly what they're doing and make sure they're doing it all correctly?

Doozergirl

Your opinion of them doesn't affect the legal stance. We definitely don't need to know what "Rob" thinks of them, or his plasterer, or how often they bathe. It says a bit more about you than you think it does.

You'd have to go to a party wall surveyor or a solicitor if you come home and it had been removed. If no one is communicating, then there's not a lot you can do to prevent it...

So, you need to speak to your neighbours and tell them that you need your chimney stack. There's no actual need for anyone to remove the stack. They can still achieve removing the chimney breasts working from inside the house and supporting the stack in the loft. If they know that you won't allow it then even unreasonable people are unlikely to do it.

Clearly Rob knows that consent hasn't been given. If he carries on the job then you can communicate with him about what is happening inside. He will just recommend to them what I have.

If it's a new builder, then I guess you just have to mention it to them too. Builders aren't baddies so they won't be demolishing other people's property if they know they don't have permission.

casper_g

Well, I liked the gossip. I thought it added colour to the story, and showed context that was relevant to why OP might feel there was a real risk the neighbours would go ahead with the work without consultation.

djdust

casper_g wrote: »

Well, I liked the gossip. I thought it added colour to the story, and showed context that was relevant to why OP might feel there was a real risk the neighbours would go ahead with the work without consultation.

Exactly. Sadly, some people can't simply give advice or share knowledge without chucking in a load of sarcasm and condescension too. Always reminds me of this whenever I encounter anyone like it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z8pgV74_Hw

Doozergirl

I really dislike gossip of any kind. What the builder said to you is just hearsay and what you say to us is chinese whispers. People might enjoy it, but it doesn't make it right. All you really needed to do was state the facts, say that you were worried that they might knock it down and ask your questions.

Despite really not liking the tone, I felt I would say something but I did also offer genuine, proper advice on two occasions (you notice that nobody else did). You then think you've got a new friend to play with and start getting all playground on me. I haven't watched your video, but I hope you enjoyed posting it.

I shouldn't have offered advice. Sometimes when people don't get on with their neighbours they need to take a little look in the mirror. Thankfully, I don't need to worry about my chimney, my neighbours removed their chimney breasts properly.

stator

Get a party wall injunction. Will cost money but only way to stop them

djdust

Doozergirl wrote: »

What the builder said to you is just hearsay and what you say to us is chinese whispers. People might enjoy it, but it doesn't make it right. All you really needed to do was state the facts, say that you were worried that they might knock it down and ask your questions.

Despite really not liking the tone, I felt I would say something but I did also offer genuine, proper advice on two occasions (you notice that nobody else did). You then think you've got a new friend to play with and start getting all playground on me. I haven't watched your video, but I hope you enjoyed posting it.

I shouldn't have offered advice. Sometimes when people don't get on with their neighbours they need to take a little look in the mirror. Thankfully, I don't need to worry about my chimney, my neighbours removed their chimney breasts properly.

You have no qualms at all about rudely giving me feedback about how I wrote my post. Pity you can't take it back and are now continuing with your nasty little digs hinting that I'm the cause of the problem. For someone so concerned about how people should "stick to the facts", you seem keen to keep dishing out the irrelevant nastiness. Pathetic.

djdust

stator wrote: »

Get a party wall injunction. Will cost money but only way to stop them

I'll look into it but, hopefully, like the last incident a couple of years ago, we'll be able to sort it with some simple communication. As I said in my first post, was just looking to get some facts and check my rights first.

Doozergirl

stator wrote: »

Get a party wall injunction. Will cost money but only way to stop them

So how does one do that when no one has actually done anything? It's not possible.

If they did go to remove the chimney, it would be done before any injunction could be gained.

When one is talking about the PWA and the buildings involved are domestic, there is no opportunity for injunctions. The timeframes are too short.