Various options for an electric only flat?

Tom99

whatnext18 wrote: »

Well the thing is I don't think the storage heaters sound like the right option for me. From what I can read there is very little control over the heat and using boost function out of low rate times would be expensive.
So my line of reasoning is that if I stick with programmable heaters, as the hours that I would realistically need heating would be high rate hours anyway, it is probably cheaper with normal tariff?
What other electrical options do you have in mind?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Providing heat at peak rate hours but having used the previous night to store up that heat, at a cheap rate, is what storage rads do and new ones will be able to retain that stored heat for quite a time.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Alternatively a wet electrical central heating will cost more to install but has traditional rads with hot water supplied to them through copper pipes, just like a gas system. You can get some of these which store cheap night time heat. They are likely to cost more to run that normal E7 storage rads but may be an added attraction when you come to sell as they look more traditional.[/FONT]

whatnext18

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Providing heat at peak rate hours but having used the previous night to store up that heat, at a cheap rate, is what storage rads do and new ones will be able to retain that stored heat for quite a time.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Alternatively a wet electrical central heating will cost more to install but has traditional rads with hot water supplied to them through copper pipes, just like a gas system. You can get some of these which store cheap night time heat. They are likely to cost more to run that normal E7 storage rads but may be an added attraction when you come to sell as they look more traditional.[/FONT]

So I googled a high heat retention storage heaters and it appears that this is a new design that retains heat well


From some of the comments here, it definitely saves money though there may still be some need to have extra charged stored to have a comfortable temperature.


Perhaps a quantum storage heater in the living room, and a portable thermal liquid one can now be an option? (one user mentioned it is too hot to have old styled storage heaters in a bedroom)

Carrot007

whatnext18 wrote: »

From what I can see on google, I might get a dry thermal one for the living room and a thermal liquid one for bedroom because apparently the latter retains heat for longer so it sort of makes sense

As long as you understand that does not make it any cheaper.


It means it takes longer to heat up the room, because the heat stays in it longer rather than going to the room.

Scatty

whatnext18 wrote: »

My future one is just one floor, so potentially easier to retain heat.


From what I can see on google, I might get a dry thermal one for the living room and a thermal liquid one for bedroom because apparently the latter retains heat for longer so it sort of makes sense

My cats love the landing as that is where the heat rises to! The Rointe are all very well but god the expense.

rtho782

The only cheap way to heat with electric is with an air source heat pump, which also gives you aircon and dehumidifying.

The reason this is cheap is that you are not using electricity to create heat, instead you are using it to "move" heat.

So, 1kW of electricity can give you 3.5kW of heat.

This means that your 13p/kWh tarriff costs about 3.85p/kW of heat. This puts it basically on par with gas.

whatnext18

Scatty wrote: »

My cats love the landing as that is where the heat rises to! The Rointe are all very well but god the expense.

Do you mind me asking how large is your home and how much do you have to pay towards electricity normally?


Thanks

matelodave

A Rointe heater is just a very, very expensive oil filled radiator with an extremely complicated timer/thermostat. They don't produce any more heat nor cost any less to run than an equivalent sized oil filled rad from Argos.

If you are insisting on heating your place with full price leccy then just try out the panel radiators that are already there. They wont cost you anymore to run than any of the exotic stuff that's out there.

The most expensive way to heat your house would be with an electric boiler and wet radiators. The cheapest would be with storage heaters on an E7 tarrif.

In the end it's up to you to decide how you want to use it and how much you want to pay. A wet system will involve plumbing and pipework all round. although as suggested above, if there's outside space for the compressor unit you could contemplate an air source heat pump feeding radiators or even an air-to-air system (which look like air-con units) like this https://www.daikin.co.uk/en_gb/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps.html

have a look on Google to see whats available and how they work. A-A heatpmumps are very efficient (COP's up to 5) and can be relatively cheap to install if you've got space for the units (both inside and outside). They are also more responsive to short-time usage unlike ASHP or even storage heaters.

whatnext18

matelodave wrote: »

A Rointe heater is just a very, very expensive oil filled radiator with an extremely complicated timer/thermostat. They don't produce any more heat nor cost any less to run than an equivalent sized oil filled rad from Argos.

If you are insisting on heating your place with full price leccy then just try out the panel radiators that are already there. They wont cost you anymore to run than any of the exotic stuff that's out there.

The most expensive way to heat your house would be with an electric boiler and wet radiators. The cheapest would be with storage heaters on an E7 tarrif.

In the end it's up to you to decide how you want to use it and how much you want to pay. A wet system will involve plumbing and pipework all round. although as suggested above, if there's outside space for the compressor unit you could contemplate an air source heat pump feeding radiators or even an air-to-air system (which look like air-con units) like this https://www.daikin.co.uk/en_gb/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps.html

have a look on Google to see whats available and how they work. A-A heatpmumps are very efficient (COP's up to 5) and can be relatively cheap to install if you've got space for the units (both inside and outside). They are also more responsive to short-time usage unlike ASHP or even storage heaters.

Thanks


No I am not insisting on using electric radiators at full price, it's only that I didn't happen to find out about the high heat retention storage heater ones e.g quantum


So with storage heaters, would it draw more power over time to compensate the heat loss over the day? Is that a significant factor for Quantum heaters?


When I am researching the quantum heaters, the dimplex website linked a study comparing their heaters with other electric radiators, which suggests the heating cost would be about £230 per year cheaper for a 40sq m built to 1990 reg.



The flat i'm buying is 38sqm and converted around in 80s so the savings should be comparable right??


From the website, I think I'd need 2 quantum heaters costing 1.6k, perhaps a backup electric heater for my bedroom as quantum is not recommended by the company itself, along with sparky cost if needed.


Another factor that I can think of that would be good to have eco7 is the hot water cylinder. It sounds like heating a tank of water can be expensive, is that actually true? I suppose the savings there can balance out the slightly higher day time rates for other appliances (1 person in 1 bed flat, googled average should be around 2000-2500kwh/yr)



I am thinking about how long it takes to the outgoing savings to balance out the initial extra cost. Thanks

matelodave

A hot water tank takes around 6-8kwh to heat so at 15p/kw = around £1. If you have E7 then it's about half that. As it's thermostatically controlled it will only take as much power as required to keep it hot. Try putting it on a time switch for an hour per day and see if you get enough hot water for your needs - that will reduce it down to about 3kw a day.

You could probably save a bit by not wasting hot water and making sure the tank is well insulated.

Always take "savings" with a large pinch of salt. You'll only "save" if you had a ginormous bill in the first place.

Two heaters costing £1.6k will give the same amount of heat as two cheaper storage heaters of the same rating so it's not clear how they'll save you money. In the end you need a certain amount of heat to keep a space warm and comfortable and the only way you'll save is by not having it as warm.

However that said, let's assume that they might just save say £100 a year it will take you ten or more years to get your money back if you pay £1000 more for them.

You pays your money and takes your choice but IMO I wouldn't spend £1600 on posh storage heaters. I'd see how I get on with what I'd already got.

read you meters at least weekly and put them in a spreadsheet so you can monitor your consumption and get a picture of your energy consumption over a year

whatnext18

matelodave wrote: »

A hot water tank takes around 6-8kwh to heat so at 15p/kw = around £1. If you have E7 then it's about half that. As it's thermostatically controlled it will only take as much power as required to keep it hot. Try putting it on a time switch for an hour per day and see if you get enough hot water for your needs - that will reduce it down to about 3kw a day.

You could probably save a bit by not wasting hot water and making sure the tank is well insulated.

Always take "savings" with a large pinch of salt. You'll only "save" if you had a ginormous bill in the first place.

Two heaters costing £1.6k will give the same amount of heat as two cheaper storage heaters of the same rating so it's not clear how they'll save you money. In the end you need a certain amount of heat to keep a space warm and comfortable and the only way you'll save is by not having it as warm.

However that said, let's assume that they might just save say £100 a year it will take you ten or more years to get your money back if you pay £1000 more for them.

You pays your money and takes your choice but IMO I wouldn't spend £1600 on posh storage heaters. I'd see how I get on with what I'd already got.

read you meters at least weekly and put them in a spreadsheet so you can monitor your consumption and get a picture of your energy consumption over a year

Thanks for breaking it down for me.


So the flat doesn't already come with storage heaters which is why I'm being indecisive about whether storage heaters (along with the capital costs) is going to save a lot of money (as in break even with costs)


Without buying new storage heaters, that means I am stuck with the electric radiators that this forum absolutely hates. If I have them, I'd make sure I have thermostats and timer control then.



Regarding the water tank, I intend to get a new unvented tank that's well insulated if it is feasible after getting quotes/consulted with a plumber. So I should probably heat it overnight/just before I wake up, and use a timeswitch for the evening/night then. I hope I haven't misunderstood what you meant


There is a heating and water heating demand section on the EPC report. As there are quite a few assumptions made by the surveyor, should I take it as more or less accurate or should I just ignore it?


Thank you


p.s: The reason I use EPC is because I am not living there yet so I have no reference points