Storage heaters!

ChumpusRex

LadFromWales85 wrote: »

I know you have standard storage heaters, but I do wonder how the fancy ones with fan heaters work. Do they receive two feeds of electricity, or do they rely on their own timers for storage?

They have 2 feeds. One switched, one permanent.

This allows charging and instant heat if it is very cold at night (as both the storage element and fan element could use 13 A each).

LadFromWales85

Don't think I'd want those! As much as I'd love on demand heat from the huge great lumping boxes on my walls, I don't want to pay the costs!
I use a LPG portable heater when it does get really cold, a single cylinder lasted me the whole winter last year, most likely cheaper than running storage heaters! Only problem with those is you need to open a window after a bit to allow some ventilation for the heater, thus letting all the heat out!

Terrylw1

Hi Susie,

Ok.

Don't worry about the private timeswitch issue, you would know if had 1 since you would be using it. Just allows you to add further timings outside of the E7 timeswitch times.

3 readings, so yes you have E7 and you should pay attention to rate 1 & rate 4. These are the "read" dials that your Supplier will use to supply your bill.

Now, are both of these rates moving?

The fact that you are being charged peak - where have you found that out? Was it from your bill? If so, that tells me that your off peak dial is not moving and that you are on peak permanently.

Now, if your storage heaters are wiring up to the off peak tails, they should not come on at all.

so, it could be that either a) the engineer who installed the meter has set the timeswitch incorrectly b) it's faulty and has switched on and won't switch off or c) you storage heating is wiring up incorrectly in the fuse box as it's wiring to the on peak tails when it shouldn't be.

c) can only be fixed by a private electrician.

However, a) and b) are completely up to your Supplier to sort. If you tell them this, they shoud just send out an engineer on a replace faulty timeswitch job.

I would strongly suggest you are there when the engineer attends just in case it is c) as at least he can explain it to you so you know what to do to resolve it.

Don't worry about Ampy - its the manufacturer name.

2 rate Ampy meters in some regions have to have their readings reversed by the meter reader which causes lots of problems with Suppliers. It's a right pain. However, if only one reading is moving on your meter, that won't apply to you.

Can you advise if only rate 1 or 4 is moving, or both?

If only 1 is moving through the course of 24 hours, contact your Supplier as soon as possible.

Your Supplier will attempt to re-apply your consumption to give you a bill with off peak rates as well to resolve this. However, you have consumed power because of the heater issue and thats not your Suppliers fault, it's the Meter Operator's. I would suggest you persuade them to bill you ALL heating at off peak rates to reduce your bill as it's not your fault this has happened.

susieq10

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Hi Susie,




Now, are both of these rates moving? No!


Can you advise if only rate 1 or 4 is moving, or both? According to the meter, it looks like rate 4 is the only one moving. However, I checked my readings against my last bill and it looks like they have got the readings mixed up: (Bill dated 8th August 07).
Previous reading: night = 2954
day = 11583 (according to bill).
Present reading: rate 1 = 02954
rate 4 = 13910
So, it looks like they have rate 1 as being the E7, night reading and rate 4 as the standard day reading.
Whichever way you look at it, the (night) rate 1 is not moving! So Im paying for ALL my electricity at peak rate!

Do you think this is definately something to do with the timeswitch then? Or incorrect wiring up of the meter?

Thank you so much for your time and advice! This situation has been really bothering me, but I just didn't feel that I knew enough to get it sorted properly. :kisses:

susieq10

Hi Terry,

Just to let you know that I rang Npower with the new readings and to find out when they would come to correct the mistake.
They said that it could take up to 28 days for them to either repair or replace the meter and that I would be refunded money after they have worked out how much they owe me.
I hope it does'nt take as long as 28 days, but as long as I get my refund I suppose it does'nt matter!
:beer:

ChumpusRex

Hi suzie,

this is a slightly odd problem. I'm struggling to explain it in terms of 1 fault.

I wonder if the problem is a faulty time switch that is stuck in 'night' mode, but that the rates have been mixed up at billing - so that your 'night' reading is being billed as day, and vice versa.

The alternative is some rather creative mis-wiring.

Regardless, if only one rate is moving, it is clearly a metering problem (and not a problem with your private wiring), and you need to contact your supplier.

Terrylw1

Hi Susie,

Thanks for the readings, that explains it more clearly.

Ok, rate 1 for Npower has always been peak in their systems (rate 2 off peak) because thats the way it was built many years ago when you had electricity boards. Some regions were the other way and it was all dependant on your region.

Regardless of region, Npower will swap them around to match their system using a piece of data they received with your new meter data called Time Pattern Regime (TPR). This means they always know which way round to bill your readings.

Rate 4 is your peak rate, rate 1 your off peak rate. They have got it right unless on your meter it says rate 4 is off peak. If so, they need to sort that as well for you. Your bill will show in terms of day or night.

Ok, yes you have either got a faulty timeswitch or your heating is wired to incorrect tails. To understand if it's tails is easy - did you have E7 before? If so, did your heating work correctly then? If the answer is yes, the timeswitch is either just stuck and won't switch over or the engineer has programmed it for 24 hours. Either way, it's a 20 minute call for the engineer to sort this for you.

If it's tails, then it's your responsibility to pay for a private electrician to change it in your fusebox. However, this would have occurred where you had work done and it would have been present before the new meter.

After that you will need to liaise with your Supplier over how to bill you because they have caused your heating to be on all the time. They will need to perform an assessment of your usage within the following 7 days to a month after the meter change. They will aks you to monitor your daily readings to allow them to understand what your typical daily usage is on each rate. Then they will amend your bill for the previous meter to split your energy use to match that of a typical day on your new meter.

It's quite a simple process really.

Now onto the visit issue. They have told you a pack of lies there.

It is ILLEGAL for any Meter Operator to open a meter to attempt to repair it. A meter can only be opened by the manufacturer or Ofgem's appointed independant Meter Examiner when performed an analysis of a faulty meter for Ofgem. This is to prevent Suppliers winding back meters & to protect Suppliers from Meter Operators who could make prfit by doing the same (it's the same as clocking in a car)

They have to provide you with a date, it must be within 10 days and must be to your acceptance. They have the ability to book an am, pm or 2 hour slot. If they cannot give you a date within 10 days, they fail Ofgem's Guaranteed Standards Of Service (GSOS).

This type of job is exactly the same as a meter change to the engineer as far as time goes. He/she will check the timeswitch, change it or perform a straight meter change. Then it gets reported back to your Supplier as faulty and then it's over to you to sort the bill.

Don't worry about the peak only usage. They have to assess it all for you and bill you correctly.

28 days is absolutely ridiculous, they can't do that for a customer visit request!!! Be firm.

susieq10

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Hi Susie,



Rate 4 is your peak rate, rate 1 your off peak rate. They have got it right unless on your meter it says rate 4 is off peak. No thats right! If so, they need to sort that as well for you. Your bill will show in terms of day or night.

Ok, yes you have either got a faulty timeswitch or your heating is wired to incorrect tails. Sounds like it's the timeswitch then! To understand if it's tails is easy - did you have E7 before? Yes! If so, did your heating work correctly then? Yes! If the answer is yes, the timeswitch is either just stuck and won't switch over or the engineer has programmed it for 24 hours. Either way, it's a 20 minute call for the engineer to sort this for you.




Now onto the visit issue. They have told you a pack of lies there.


They have to provide you with a date, it must be within 10 days and must be to your acceptance. They have the ability to book an am, pm or 2 hour slot. If they cannot give you a date within 10 days, they fail Ofgem's Guaranteed Standards Of Service (GSOS). They said that they would ring me to make an appointment. If I wait up to 10 days and haven't heard from them, should I report them to Ofgem or ring them and mention the word 'Ofgem' to see if it will get them off their backsides?



Don't worry about the peak only usage. They have to assess it all for you and bill you correctly. Will I have to ring them again after they have sorted the meter out, regarding the bill or will they contact me?

Terrylw1

Hi Susie,

If they have logged you as a faulty timeswitch customer, they should have put your account on hold until it's sorted as all your bills are wrong. I wouldn't pay more than you used to either as you are currently being seriously overcharged.

After the visit - If they don't get back to you within 14 days, I would contact them again. If you get any debt chasing letters, get them to put your account on hold. They can't ask you to pay at this point as they cannot produce an accurate bill.

Ok, the visit side - they can book you in an appointment whilst you are on the phone. Thats their procedure. If they haven't given you a date, you won't be hearing back from them. Based on what you were told, I think you have been told a load of rubbish to get you off the phone.

I would ring them back and request an appointment on a given date within either an am, pm or 2 hour timeslot. If they do that, they are then bound by a further Ofgem GSOS which means if the visit doesn't happen, you get £20. They then have X days (think it's 10 or 14, can't remember without checking???) to pay this £20 to your account or you they owe you a further 1 off £20 payment.

Maybe the advisors have to told to pass it onto a specialist team to assess first but that is going to take time to get to them, them to look at it, blah blah. Your case is absolutely clear cut and only a visit from a engineer will sort it.

If I were you I would call back and state it's unacceptable. Tell them the current meter readings so you can prove the off peak dial is not moving. Then if they still won't book an appointment, I would speak to a manager since the longer you wait, the more heating they force you to use. Remember that after all this, they will expect you to pay for the heating when you never wanted it on all day! So, while they wait - they scam you out of off peak rate electricity. Thats totally unfair.

I would also request some form of compensation against your bill to wipe out the extra heating use once they establish you daily usage. I know they will try and bill all of your heating to off peak rates at a minimum which in my opinion, they should write off in some way since you never asked for all day heating in the first place and the engineer caused that!!!

You can certainly mention Energywatch & Ofgem at them. Speak to a manager if they won't book you an appointment. There's no point you waiting for a specialist team to pick this up as it's so simple.

Call centres are often told not to do things without authorisation, which a manager can give. You may find they just back down when you ask for one, thats par for the course in call centres.

susieq10

Hi Terry!

Well, you will be pleased to know that I have been very 'firm' and assertive with Npower!:D

I was fed up of messing about so I contacted energywatch for further advice. They took all the details and put me in touch with Npowers complaints dept. Now Npower have to report back to energywatch with the progress and outcome of this situation.:j

I gave all the details to them and got a date from them for the repairs/replacement of the meter. I also asked them to put my account on hold, but agreed to a reduction in my monthly DD, (half the amount I was paying).
I also asked if I could get compensation for having to replace one of the storage heaters, as this had overheated and burnt out due to continually storing heat 24/7. He said he would look in to it for me, but when I told him how much it cost me to replace it, he wasn't so enthusiastic!:rotfl:
Still They might give me something towards it

I mentioned Ofgems (GSOS), they didn't like that! It must be like swearing at them!:rotfl:

Anyway, it seems to be sorted now. I just have to wait after the repair to sort out my bills with them next....that should be fun!:D

Thank you so much for all your help....thank god for forums like this and people like you!:kisses: