CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD have filed a CCJ for old address

sppc42

Hi All,

I just had an Experian search done, which revealed that there's a CCJ on my name, something I was not aware of till now! Here are some details / timelines

1. I moved from my old address in Dec 2016 to a new house, but forgot to update my V5C address with DVLA. Only in July 2017 I got to know of this and got my V5C address updated to my new house.
2. In the meanwhile, in Feb 2017, apparently there was a parking violation and Civil Enforcement Ltd issued me a PCN to my old address. Ofcourse, that never reached me and hence I never came to know that there was a PCN raised.
3. They apparently followed it up with further notices, including court order, all being sent to my old address and I hence, never received them too.
4. They finally then filed a CCJ which is now showing up on my credit record for an outstanding debt of £345/- to Civil Enforcement Ltd.

I want to know what are the options for me now.

1. Dispute the CCJ in County Court by paying £255/-. That'll need me to represent myself in the court and discuss the above with a judge, hoping for the judge to revoke the CCJ as I had indeed never received the CCJ or the court order. Albeit, am afraid that the judge might say that its because of my own mistake that I never updated my address at DVLA, where the Civil Enforcement was sending the notices.
2. OR - I have the option to silently pay the £345/- and get the matter closed, but that will show up as a CCJ for 6yrs to come on my credit record with status 'satisfied'. Even with that status, it is hugely going to affect my credit ratings.

Am really now thinking of going for option 1, but am worried if the judge might side the enforcement agency as they can easily assert that there is no mistake from their end and they have been sending the notices to the address passed to them by DVLA. However, technically, since I never received the PCN or the court order, I think I might get the lenient view of the judge and get this CCJ revoked.

Kindly advise, this is really urgent for me and any inputs will be highly appreciated!

Thanks

KeithP

I would say you have a very good chance of a set aside.

As CEL never once received any response from you to all their letters, they should've realised that they were writing to the wrong address. The claim was never properly served and as such a set aside is almost guaranteed.

Of course, that is their sneaky business model - go for a default CCJ in the hope the victim doesn't notice.

There is a section towards the bottom of post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which covers set asides.

Only yesterday another poster reported a successful set aside against CEL:

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74406053

There might be something useful in that thread.

Sticking CEL set aside in the forum search facility will find many more.

Coupon-mad

And read how this poster achieved it yesterday:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5824442/ccj-gone-to-old-address-from-parking-fine-has-resulted-in-rejected-mortgage

We were prepared with skeleton defence and chronology but no opportunity to go through as Judge just asked some questions. CEL did not show up.

We weren't sure which way it was going to go. Firstly the judge said our WS states that all correspondence went to wrong address, she feels this is not a good enough defence - so basically wash your hands with that, as we forgot to update log book. It was an error on our part due to stress we were dealing with at the time.

But she acknowledged that if we have evidence that we shouldn't have got the original PCN then to focus on this and this was the reason she set aside.

So, the Judge might criticise you for not updating your address but there are also ways to put forward an argument about that in fact being the burden of the claimant, as Sir Oliver Heald and the Government believe...

Search the forum for:

CEL set aside £255 order costs reserved

and also

Sir Oliver Heald

and you will find the tools and info you need, alongside the info in the NEWBIES thread which also links you to another set aside case, where the person ('saggi' someone) got their £255 back on the spot. The link is there and that can be done.

Because CEL can't hold a registered keeper liable in law (their choice, their non-POFA paperwork/wording) they can't be said to have had a cause of action against you in the first place, as long as you can't recall who was driving (which of course, you CAN'T).

Redx

also read this and then ask your MP to get in touch with those ministers for clarification on this credit clamping issue they promised to sort out over 18 months ago


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5856218/previous-justice-minister-dominic-raab-ccjs-what-is-happening-and-when

waamo

There is also option 3. Live with it. CEL so far don't seem to enforce the ccj's they get. This could change in the future though.

For some people, depending on their circumstances, this may be an option.

sppc42

Thanks all for the quick replies, its really given me some strength. I have been sifting through those various links and realize that I need to get a good defense prepared. I have few more points, questions to ask for this

1. Other threads (saggi etc.) - They all seem to have a valid reason, like one poster was able to prove that their original PCN was invalid from Gym time records, contravening what CEL said in the original PCN. In my case, I did not update my V5C and CEL, thus, kept on sending it to my old address they obtained from DVLA. Am not sure how should I defend this?
2. I had a Royal Mail Postal redirect for 3 months, which clearly ended before this violation happened. Can this be added to defence to show to judge that I was doing right things? The only proof for this is the reminder email from Royal Mail at the end of those 3 months asking me if I wish to renew it, which I clearly didn't find worthwhile at that point, having now already been living at the new address for 3 months.
3. As a further info, in June 2017 I was contacted by another private debt collection agency acting on behalf of DVLA to collect a fine of £80 for no payment of Vehicle Tax. In this case, again, DVLAs reminder to pay tax went to my old address and I never thus managed to tax my vehicle in time. So, I immediately reached DVLA and got my V5C updated and paid them the £80 fine. Will it be viable to show to the judge that this collection agency was able to get my new address, so why was CEL not able to do it?! Are they acting irresponsible? That agency is called Pastdue and they reached out to me on my email, and only then i knew that there was something wrong. So, if they can reach me by email, why can;t CEL do the same?

My main worry now for a set aside application is to be able to prove that its not my mistake completely. In my defense against CEL, I can think of the following points (please correct if you think they are invalid) -

1. I never received the original PCN or any followup notices, so I was never able to get a chance to defend myself
2. Clearly CEL kept on sending notices to my old address and never got any reply, so they never bothered to check if that address is indeed correct
3. This is clearly a case of credit clamping by CEL who are using this mechanism to wrongly fine people without following their full responsibility - quote Sir Oliver Heald MP
4. Registered Keeper's argument - completely refute the original PCN as they cannot prove that I was driving the car. HOWEVER - I am worried if this argument can backfire as this offence is for parking and is issued against the car's owner/keeper, which is me, for not abiding to the time restrictions. How is this helpful if I say that CEL cannot prove that I was driving the car? Also, what if CEL can prove that I was the driver etc, thus contravening my statement.

As the other poster who got their CCJ revoked just yesterday - they have clearly said that the judge guided them that they cannot 'wash their hands-off' the fact that it was their mistake they did not update the V5C. Hence, this will certainly be in my case also - judge can easily say that it's my mistake and ask me to focus on other defense bits that I deem reasonable. Hence the points above. If you guys think I can add something else here, given my circumstances, to increase the weight of my arguments of defense, then that would be highly appreciated!

Apologies - I have just been reading furtively through the pages and numerous threads, so kindly pardon my 'newbie' questions as I might be asking some rather obvious questions with incorrect assumptions.

Thanks!

Coupon-mad

How is this helpful if I say that CEL cannot prove that I was driving the car?

Already explained:

Because CEL can't hold a registered keeper liable in law (their choice, their non-POFA paperwork/wording) they can't be said to have had a cause of action against you in the first place, as long as you can't recall who was driving (which of course, you CAN'T).

CEL never turn up. I think you've overestimated what they do...!

You would have to try VERY hard not to get this set aside. I bet you can do this easily.

Because they do not use the POFA and can't hold you liable and won't show up, there was never a cause of action against you and the driver will NEVER be identified (and there is no lawful assumption, nor any obligation on you to even think about who might have been driving).

Stop assuming everyone has a magic defence that you don't have. You do.

It's CEL, dead easy!

Oh, and yes is the answer to questions 2 and 3, you need to paint a picture of reasonableness.

sppc42

thanks for the amazing reply! Loved this -

Stop assuming everyone has a magic defence that you don't have. You do.

I'll prepare my WS document and share it out asap. I would sincerely appreciate if you guys can do a quick proof read and let me know if it looks fine. I'll then submit an application for set aside and get this rolling.

Again - thanks a lot!

sppc42

A quick question before I dig into preparing my WS - for the Set Aside, I want to specify the below as a demand from CEL

1. Ask CCJ to be set aside
2. Ask PCN to be re-issued to 'new address' as am 'willing' to pay the original fine
3. Re-claim £255 as a refund from CEL for court proceedings

Kindly let me know if the above looks correct or if there's anything wrong in those. I'll word them appropriately in the WS and share them out soon.

Thanks

The_Deep

but am worried if the judge might side the enforcement agency

This is becoming less and less likely as more and more judges become aware of the scam.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Umkomaas

2. Ask PCN to be re-issued to 'new address' as am 'willing' to pay the original fine

Why are you wanting to do that? CEL will more than likely capitulate if the Judge asks them to file a new claim.

3. Re-claim £255 as a refund from CEL for court proceedings

If you do 2 (above) you are more or less kissing goodbye to any refund.