Advice on box junction fine

unholyangel

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

That's why I couldn't match the photo to the description. Unless the silver car came from the road on the left and was trying to get into the right lane? Even then, it's a bit of an odd trajectory but it could be the camera angle and perspective is misleading.

I was thinking maybe the son was going to move left from the right lane to the left and someone already in the left lane (or emerging from the box junction) got in there before him.

I agree its confusing from the description given though. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to clarify for us.

Aylesbury_Duck

unholyangel wrote: »

I was thinking maybe the son was going to move left from the right lane to the left and someone already in the left lane (or emerging from the box junction) got in there before him.

I agree its confusing from the description given though. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to clarify for us.

Agreed. I'm not convinced by the "markings were very faded" argument either. They are clearly visible in a very low-res night-time photo.

Mercdriver

unholyangel wrote: »

I was thinking maybe the son was going to move left from the right lane to the left and someone already in the left lane (or emerging from the box junction) got in there before him.

I agree its confusing from the description given though. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to clarify for us.

If he has already stopped before attempting to move to the left lane then the offence is already complete since he stopped within the box junction. I agree with others that the faded paintwork defence is a non starter...

unholyangel

Mercdriver wrote: »

If he has already stopped before attempting to move to the left lane then the offence is already complete since he stopped within the box junction. I agree with others that the faded paintwork defence is a non starter...

Stopping in a box junction isn't an offence. Yes, I know how that sounds but thats what the offence says (read my earlier post #8 for the exact wording).

The offence is (paraphrasing) entering the box junction when the circumstances are such that you will need to stop with any part of your vehicle is within the box junction limits. It creates an exception to the offence for people who are turning right but only if they have to stop/are prohibited from turning right due to oncoming traffic or other vehicles who are also waiting to turn right.

DoaM

I wonder if the vehicle in front of the silver car also received a FPN? (Its rear wheels are in the box junction).

What about the dark car at the bottom of the picture? (That one looks like it may still be moving and about to switch to the left lane, but it would likely end up with its rear wheels still in the box junction - unless the traffic had started moving before it finished crossing the box).

Car_54

DoaM wrote: »

I wonder if the vehicle in front of the silver car also received a FPN? (Its rear wheels are in the box junction).

How do you know it's stationary?

daveyjp

A single photo tells you absolutely nothing to prove the exit wasn't clear before the stopped vehicle entered the box.

DoaM

Car_54 wrote: »

How do you know it's stationary?

Because of the vehicle in front of it.

And before you ask "How do you know THAT was stationary" I'll say ... if neither of those vehicles were stationary then there'd be no reason for the silver car to be stationary.

Bigphil1474

You can't determine any car is stationary from that photo or any photo - a photo of the same junction where all cars are moving at 5mph would look pretty much the same given the poor quality picture. They should provide 2 photos that are time stamped with different times which would show the car hasn't moved in those times, or a video showing the vehicle stationary. The trick with this junction would have been to move so slowly as to not have to come to a stop before the car in front moved off, or as per the rules, not entered it if you can't see your exit.
OP, if you are suggesting that the exit was clear as your son entered the box, but became blocked whilst he was traversing it, then that's your appeal, as that is allowed. The local council should be able to check that.

Arklight

Box junctions are a money making scam which are enforced occasionally in London. It looks like that junction is paying for Camden Council's Diversity Coordinators Summer Away Day.

You'll need to convince them to have a cheaper away day if you and the other 352 people they "charged" that day are going to be let off.