Prepping for Brexit thread

timehastoldme

Isn't this the same thread where we got whinged at for daring to talk politics in amongst our preparations? Good grief how you've all changed your tune when the song's more to your taste 🙄

Saipan

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

You're right of course, no prepping is ever a waste of time and we have all the useful things you mention and much more. I too have a head full of 'how to's' and knowledge that will be perhaps be life saving if we ever are in a situation that needs us to use it. What I feel is 'duped' in that I believed in the democratic vote of the people, not just me, being accepted and carried out by the people we trusted enough to put into governance of this country and am feeling a total fool for having that belief in the first place because they have failed, worse than that they haven't even tried, in fact have used every obstruction in the book to avoid carrying out their professional duty to the people of the UK. I guess those who chose to remain will be feeling smugly pleased that this has happened BUT I have the thought in my head now that sooner or later there will be issues of grave importance to people who wanted to remain that will receive the same cavalier treatment from whomsoever is in power at the time because this is an utterly absolutely dangerous precedent to have a created and I fear that in the future there will be very little that governments won't do and then we have tyranny. I was proud of the age old British stance on the rights of the person and freedom of speech and I am now totally disillusioned.

A view from a different perspective...


I voted to remain in the EU, as did my extended family and virtually all of my friends and colleagues (I only know one person who voted to leave and he has since changed his mind due to the impact on his business). I can understand the thought that remain voters might feel smugly pleased, but I do not feel this and I don't know anyone else who does. What I do feel is that I don't recognise the country I live in - which is something that I hear constantly from other people, so I am far from alone in this.


As a remain voter, I have been vilified in the mainstream print media (with the exception of the Guardian and the Independent) and frequently insulted by my own government. I am not a 'remoaner' - I have far more important things to worry about, such as the collapse of public services and what this will mean to all of us. Nor am I a 'remaniac' or any of the other frankly silly but nonetheless offensive labels thrown in the direction of those who voted to remain.


What is far less easily ignored are the views of those saying that if you don't want to leave the EU, then you should 'get out' of the UK. I heard this view expressed vehemently on - of all places - the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2, and when I mentioned it to friends they told me that this type of comment is all over social media, accompanied in many instances by threats of violence. I don't 'do' social media but when I looked, I was profoundly disturbed - some of these threats are horrific. And they are not just coming from a handful of people either.


I believe in democracy and my right to think for myself, and crucially, the right of others to do the same. The result of the referendum is what it is and I have prepared in line with what I see as the risks and to protect my own and my family's ability to maintain a good standard of living - no more, no less, privately and quietly, and certainly no moaning.


I also believe deeply in contributing to society as much as I am able to and feel that I try hard to do this - I work 50 hours a week in senior management in the public sector, desperately trying to keep vital health services running against a background of the most severe cuts in living memory (I'm not complaining, btw - millions of us are doing the same). I happily pay tax at a higher rate and fit in voluntary work as and when I can - again, as do millions of others. And yet, because I hold a certain view, I am being told I am not welcome in my own country.


As a family - all three generations of us - we are now seriously looking at leaving the UK and moving to another European country. My adult children and myself are currently focusing on converting our British health/education qualifications to European equivalents if needed to help with this potential move. I heard last week of two senior oncologists planning to do the same.


What this whole sorry Brexit process has shown me is that home is where I feel I can hold a viewpoint and be left in peace with this, as long as I leave others in peace to do the same. Sadly, this is not the UK.

pattypan4

bye saipan, be happy.

Personally, I believe in democracy

GreyQueen

I'm sorry you feel that way, saipan.

I have been reading the many articles in the Guardian et al in recent years where individuals who have/ are planning to leave the UK permanantly are given a place to express their reasons, and the majority are not dissimilar to your own.

What I have noted, without exception, is that the interviewees are part of the socio-economic elite, the middle and upper-middle professional classes.

Oftentimes, there is a personal or family history of a close connection with another European country or countries, such as having lived there before, have some family living there now, perhaps even having studied there, owning property or businesses there. Or, being in possession of sought-after professional skills which will make resettlement elsewhere easy while offering professional advancement and lifestyle gratifications.

One could observe that the wealthy and well-educated have choices open to them which are not open to the general run of the population. It was ever thus.

Perhaps it might help to understand the position of ordinary Britons who do not have these many blessings in their lives. The ordinary people who are being crowded out of essential resources such as access to council housing (more than one in ten are presently let to EU migrants) and the appallingly low wages which persist in an economy awash with labour. Labour which can work hard for a pittance in the UK for a couple of years and take home enough to Bulgaria (for example) to buy a house free and clear.I hear this from the workers themselves, btw.

Whereas a Briton will work and work and work for that pittance and still have very little to show for it, and is understandably less willing to bust a gut for the advancement of business owners' profit margins.

I'm not a xenophobe and mix regularly with people from all over Europe. One branch of my family has lived in Belgium since just before World War 1. You really don't want to know how ugly life gets in a continental war when you hold a British passport, even if you and your children have never actually lived in the UK. Heaven forfend we ever see another one of those continental wars, of course, but the members of my family who lived under the close personal attention of the Gestapo have only just passed away.

A point well worth considering, imo, is that what happens when the EU gets its wish to have a pan-European army. Conscription could be part of that, and British emigrees could see their youngsters out on the Russian Front taking part in history in all the worst kind of ways.

maddiemay

timehastoldme wrote: »

Isn't this the same thread where we got whinged at for daring to talk politics in amongst our preparations? Good grief how you've all changed your tune when the song's more to your taste 🙄

That was then, this is now. The prepping has been done, the intended date has passed, by most people and we are sitting here, on our hands waiting and waiting for our government to enact the will of the people of the UK.

What is there left to do, but respectfully discuss the situation as we see it, said as a someone who voted to remain, but believes in democracy and totally accepts the result of the referendum, whatever the conclusion.

maddiemay

pattypan4 wrote: »

bye saipan, be happy.

Personally, I believe in democracy

Perhaps you should go back and read the OPs post more carefully, no mention of not believing in democracy, just a profound sadness and worry that what many people believed is the bedrock of our society seems to be disappearing beneath our feet and that it is now perfectly acceptable to insult, vilify and make the most awful threats to those whose opinion they don't agree with.

Surely you don't find that acceptable do you?

silvasava

GQ - well said. However people voted we expect the government to implement the results. It's very sad to see how many of the people who are supposed to be running our country have feet of clay.

Suffolksue

Wish I could thank GreyQueen more than once.
As a Leaver what I really resent is the widespread assumption that 1 I didn't think it through and 2 I didn't understand.

I thought long and hard about my decision (as I'm sure many remainders did) and it infuriates me when it is dismissed as ignorance or worse .

Nothing has made me change my mind and I,too ,feel so very let down by the democracy I thought I lived in .

[Deleted User]

I had and have no wish to stand upon anyone else's toes or to cause them to think I was criticising anyones personal stance on Leave or Remain. What I posted and hold by is my feelings yesterday morning when I heard that Theresa May was thinking of revoking Article 50 and that there would possibly not be Brexit at all. It seems to me that 3 whole years of waiting, hoping, defending a personal decision made in a democratic process that could have been participated in by everyone eligible to vote in this country and making plans for a different life after the event as best I could were not precisely wasted time but could have been lived much more positively and without the division that has split the people of this country almost into two halves. If that has been for nothing to happen at all it's much too high a price to pay and I hope with all my being that the fractures in society because of the referendum vote actually can be healed, it's been so acrimonious and divisive that I have concerns it will be an undercurrent for decades to come and will 'flavour' our lives with bitterness.

I'm sorry if my post has caused offence, certainly none was intended to any individual, you were and are and hopefully will always be able and welcome to hold your own personal views just as I am and there is no reason why those views should not be opposite to mine, please accept my apology if my post has upset you on a personal basis, that's never a thing I'd want to happen deliberately.

DigForVictory

<Extends laden teapot of comfort>
This thread was set up to keep the politics and preps away from the End Of The World Is Nigh & when should I plant my tomato seed preps - and thus everyone who wants to sock their MP soundly around the lug'ole for just not paying attention has this space to vent, in a courteous manner.

Personally, should anyone come tapping on my door wanting my vote, they would do well to be strategically stood behind a Mormon, with whom I have a lot more courteous questions to ask.