ukpc ltd appeal

mitzy12

I knew I should have just paid 2 months ago at the reduced rate. avoided 20-30 hours of research and a lot of stress and still worried as not sure if ill be able to do a pdf file and then if I have valid points ie. grace periods allowed in an no parking area ( not a car park)!

mitzy12

keith why not reply to post 19 so i know whether u misread or given right advice about post 8!
again in case u did misread i wanted to know about PCN and no mention of POFA 2012. U obviously answered the question as u know these things, maybe misread PCN for NTK, so can u expand on keeper liability here. If u don't know any of this then why not let someone else answer me as ur response was "form ur own conclusion."

Im trying to get my point across b4 Chinese wispers gives me answers that don't apply and other people think question has been answered.

mitzy12

does schedule 4 of POFA relate to PCN as well? or Just NTK.
Keith u told me to look at this and i already know from here it has to mention POFA on NTK but im not sure if this also includes PCN's?? as paragraph says it refers to notice to keeper.
Keith u probably wont reply if u were wrong. Pls be bigger than this as i need clarification on these points.

Umkomaas

I know after reading that a golden ticket exsists with PE. My question was that on my UKPC PCN (NOT NTK) it had no POFA 2012 mention either in front or back. can I win.
and for more info I quoted the wording on the NTK (about POFA) in case the wording wasn't correct and I could win there.

But the PCN (windscreen ticket) is a Notice to Driver, aimed at getting the driver to pay the charge. There is no need or requirement to mention PoFA on the NtD. The NtK is the next stage (directed at the Registered Keeper), and it's there, on the NtK, that PoFA requirements have to be met - if not, Golden Ticket.

everyone here don't ask anything, just read and form ur own conclusion.....right or wrong and then get rejected if u did anything wrong. I don't get why I cant get help to my parking points and responses like make ur own conclusion!!

Can I say that this post of yours didn't persuade me to respond to you, in fact almost the opposite. But you've shown your colours and I won't contribute anything further unless there is a noticeable change of attitude.

Every regular contributor advising here is a volunteer, spending extraordinary amounts of their own time, helping total strangers with their problems absolutely free of charge. At a maximum there are fewer regulars than you have fingers on both hands, and in case you've missed it, it is peak holiday season and a number of regulars are away. Think about it.

Alternatively, pop along to a local solicitor where they will probably provide you with a more direct response to your questions. Amazing what £300 per hour gets you.

mitzy12

hi umkomass, i was being sarcastic as felt i'm being ignored as ive repeatedly asked and answers like "form ur own conclusion", I prob done something wrong regards to this case as i was not sure to carry on a previous thread or start a new one, and realised now this may be reason why im not getting any answers to genuine research and just want to know if i got right points or not. I posted here yesterday morning and apart from telling me the popla deadline is 28-30 days after posting, my other points are unanswered, not one response. I thought maybe people see the last answer and think its been sorted, so i ask again, about my posts 6 and 7 and specifically ask for help on this and still no answer.

im sry, i did not realise that there are not many contributors here. When i saw diff contributors responding yesterday, i just thought id write another post, asking for help instead of opening new as fear of doing wrong. ( told off weeks ago for asking on someone else thread so i started new one and got told off for that) i would have asked weeks ago but was so unsure where to post, until I left it till yesterday. even then i just asked on an old thread for diff case(This one) I realise, now someone has said one topic one thread. i should have stared new one, it might have helped as can see its new case. As i was preparing draft and points, so just now wanted to know things about raising fine whilst on appeal or grace periods for a no parking area ( i.e are grace periods only for chargeable car parks) as signs were not saying no parking area.
shall i start a new thread from the beginning detailing things from start? I have about 9 -10 days to appeal to popla. thanks and sry for showing sarcasm and rudeness, which is really not me. I just know im not gonna complete this appeal as ill have somethimg that will get in way...ie time lapse, pdf format or wrong words. i was just trying to move things along whilst im motivated to do this and feel that form ur own conclusion wasn't help as i genuinely didn't know PCN doesn't need POFA wording.

Under newbies thread ( sry would paste the quote) post 3 , a little down to golden ticket, it says "always look out for the wording on the PCN from PE to see if it is a POFA/keeper liability after 29 days" it even says "look at the back of the PCN"
I know this is with PE, but thats why i asked about PCN from UKPC having no POFA 2012.

So this was meant to say NTK? (Post 3 of newbies)

System

Alternatively, pop along to a local solicitor where they will probably provide you with a more direct response to your questions. Amazing what £300 per hour gets you.

Seems a bit steep - does the OP actually need a Grade 1 (London)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates#national-grades-az-by-area

He could call some like Elms Legal who'd do it for far less.

Fruitcake

I've only skim read this thread and am a bit confused.

What exactly is it that you want mitzy? If you want help with a PoPLA appeal, please read post 3 of the NEWBIES and construct an appeal using all the template points available to you. Post your draft here for checking before you submit it.

Your appeal would normally include some if not all the following points, if relevant:-

Not the Landowner
No standing to bring charges in their own name
Not the person liable for the charge
Inadequate signage
Non PoFA complaint NTK
Lack of Grace Periods.

As we haven't seen the NTK, we don't know if it complies with the PoFA 2012. You will have to compare what the NTK says, line by line, with what the PoFA says and pick out if/where it does not meet the requirements.


You will also need your own images of the entrance and signage around the car park to show the assessor how the signage is inadequate.

mitzy12

Hi just a few questions on whether I can include these points in Popla.

Received NTK on day52 , Popla code 8 days later via rejection letter
1 As i received NTK 1st, the "contesting the parking charge" at back of NTK tells me to appeal again at their site within 28 days. (OR pay £100). Is this not confusing as id already done this on day 26 and wanted popla code. So in the 8 days receiving NTK and then the popla code, my options they gave me was pay 100 or appeal at their site (again).

2 On NTK the fine is already up from £60 TO £100, B4 i got the rejection or popla code, so is this breaking the BPA CoP? as not allowed to increase whilst investigating an appeal.?
But back to £60 after Popla code letter.

3 Also says if we contest with Popla, "the parking charge will automatically increase to the higher rate." From the £100 already demanded! no mention of how much more or to what rate

4 Vehicle was apparently parked in " area where no parking is allowed" ( looks like a parking area with entrance) I was wondering if "period of parking" is the time actually spent parked and does it have to say how long on NTK (i.e number of minutes there)

5 Also are grace periods allowed when parked in a no parking area ( no car park)??
Was the driver allowed to go and view the signs and realise it is a no parking area and then leave. Will a grace period be applicable here?

6 Also regards to wording on PoFA 2012...not sure but looks like they know what to write now but if someone could have a quick look at this,,,, quote from NTk:-

"...… A paking charge was issued t the driver at the time but this has not been paid. We therefore had reasonable cause to obtain your details as you were the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of parking.

Uk Parking Control do not know the name and address of the driver. We therefore invite you, the registered keeper, to pay the parking charge or provide us with the name and current address of the driver so that we may write to them and request payment: and you should also pass this notice to the driver.

If, after a period of 28 days ( from letter), the amount requested in this notice has not been paid in full ( or we have not been informed of the driver's name and current address) you, the registered keeper under the terms of, schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012, will be liable to pay the unpaid parking charge."

Thanks in advance.

Coupon-mad

Answers in red:

Hi just a few questions on whether I can include these points in Popla.

Received NTK on day 52 , Popla code 8 days later via rejection letter.

1 As i received NTK 1st, the "contesting the parking charge" at back of NTK tells me to appeal again at their site within 28 days. (OR pay £100). Is this not confusing as id already done this on day 26 and wanted popla code. So in the 8 days receiving NTK and then the popla code, my options they gave me was pay 100 or appeal at their site (again).

It is confusing but not something for a POPLA appeal.


2 On NTK the fine is already up from £60 TO £100, B4 i got the rejection or popla code, so is this breaking the BPA CoP? as not allowed to increase whilst investigating an appeal.?
But back to £60 after Popla code letter.

Again, not something for a POPLA appeal. Not breaking the BPA CoP.


3 Also says if we contest with Popla, "the parking charge will automatically increase to the higher rate." From the £100 already demanded! no mention of how much more or to what rate.

Again, not something for a POPLA appeal.


4 Vehicle was apparently parked in " area where no parking is allowed" ( looks like a parking area with entrance) I was wondering if "period of parking" is the time actually spent parked and does it have to say how long on NTK (i.e number of minutes there)
You are missing the appeal point hidden there! Never mind the minutes on the NTK (or not). This is a no parking area therefore you can argue as PART of the usual POPLA template appeals you see, an additional introductory point that there was no offer, no consideration, no elements of a contract in a ''no parking area'', and a PPC cannot offer parking at a cost/charge, where it is in fact disallowed by the landowner. This could be a case of trespass at best, but the Beavis case confirmed trespass is only a matter for a landowner to pursue a nominal loss or damages, not something that can be 'charged' for by a non-landholding parking firm.


5 Also are grace periods allowed when parked in a no parking area ( no car park) was the driver allowed to go and view the signs and realise it is a no parking area and then leave. Will a grace period be applicable here?

Yes, the driver must have been afforded the opportunity to read signs. If the parking was under ten mins or so, then BPA grace periods will be included in the POPLA appeal.



6 Also regards to wording on PoFA 2012...not sure but looks like they know what to write now but if someone could have a quick look at this,,,, quote from NTk:-UKPC do (usually) use POFA wording, we know that already. Are you SURE it was received on day 52?

mitzy12

thanks coupon mad, just see ur replies.

yeah def got on day 52.

say 10th april was parking charge and got NTK on 31st May.