Bus stop/shelter to be relocated in front of my house

anselld

patman99 wrote: »

Write to the local planning officer asking whether due and correct procedure was followed. For instance, did the Council place a notice in the local paper at least 28 days prior to approving the planning application?. Also, they will have needed to displayed the planning application outlining the proposed position of the bus stop at or near to the site for not less than 28 days also.
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The requirement for site notice is 21 days and only for certain specific application categories. Neighbour notification and web publication is sufficient for most applications. (And the definition of neighbour is quite narrow).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/595/article/15/made

steampowered

Mickygg wrote: »

I bet you wouldn't if it was moved to right outside your house that you have paid hundreds of thousands of £££ for.

Personally, I'd be happy with that. Convenient for the bus - quicker to get into work!

I do understand how others have a different opinion though. And I guess my opinion might change if crap started getting dumped in my front garden ...

Waterlily24

We had a bus stop outside one of our houses, absolutely no problem at all.
It wasn't a very busy one though. Great for me as I don't drive.

EachPenny

buglawton wrote: »

You might be able to object on technical grounds that the final location decision did not conform to procedures. For example, a notice should have been placed at the actual final planned location for x weeks.

Councils are quite prone to paying compensation as it's other peoples money so that may be worth pursuing if the final decision is inevitable.

The law (TSRDG) regarding bus stop markings was changed a long time ago so that the standard road marking (a bus stop clearway) could be applied without the need for a Traffic Order - previously the standard marking had no automatic restriction on parking or waiting.

Therefore the required 'process' is for the Council to decide where it wants a bus stop to be (in consulation with the police and bus operators) and then paint the marking on the road. No notices or consultation with residents is required.

It is highly unlikely that compensation would be paid. Contrary to common opinion, council officers have to account for decisions on the spending of public money. Compensation could only be paid if justified, and since the law allows councils to put bus stops where they wish, there is no justification.

patman99 wrote: »

Write to the local planning officer asking whether due and correct procedure was followed. For instance, did the Council place a notice in the local paper at least 28 days prior to approving the planning application?. Also, they will have needed to displayed the planning application outlining the proposed position of the bus stop at or near to the site for not less than 28 days also.

The exact location of the bus stop on the (existing) public highway is very unlikely to be part of the planning process. At most the application for the development might have been conditioned with a requirement to pay the costs of the bus stop being relocated to a position to be decided by the council.

Planning consent would not be required to relocate a bus stop on an existing highway, therefore no notices would be needed.

patman99 wrote: »

You could of course, park your car where the new bus stop is going to be located and refuse to move it. The contractors will not work around it for fear of causing damage. Do it right and you could hold the Council to ransom and make the project to expensive.

As others have already suggested, this would be a foolish and pointless exercise. The Highway Authority could place a removal notice on the vehicle, and in the event it is not removed the Council would be entitled to remove it, potentially at the owner's expense.

Nobody has a right to leave their vehicle on the public highway.

EachPenny

KidDynamo wrote: »

I am now taking up the issue with my newly elected councillors and the local MP. Does anyone know what my options are to get the bus stop located somewhere else, short of an appeal to the Secretary of State or a judicial review? These solutions seem a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut, so what other options are available? If the stop and shelter absolutely must be located there, can I at least get compensation for the loss of amenity and reduction in property value?

The only option you have, unless someone else volunteers to have the bus stop outside their house, is to apply for a dropped kerb to access your property (if feasible).

A bus stop cannot be located across a dropped kerb, so that would rule out your frontage as an alternative bus stop location. However, to be sucessful, you would need to meet the Council's criteria for having a dropped kerb, plus paying the council's costs to provide one, plus the cost of converting your front garden into a parking area. Whether these costs would be greater or less than the loss of value of your home with a bus stop in front of it is debatable.

Assuming you were eligible for a droped kerb and the bus stop had not yet been moved, then the Council would have to find an alternative location for it, and not charge you for doing so.

The increase in parking stress due to the neighbouring development not providing sufficient off-street parking would be good justification for our application for your own off-street parking.

If they refused your application solely because they proposed to put a bus stop there then I think you would have a very strong case to put to the Local Government Ombudsman, which might earn you a small amount of compensation.

I don't consider you to be a Nimby. Having a bus stop outside your house is an inconvenience and will have a direct impact on the potential value of your home. Unfortunately a deliberate 'loophole' in the law means frontagers are denied the right to be consulted over (and object to) a change in the use of the highway outside their home, which I feel is grossly unfair.

BTW, when the law change on bus stops was originally proposed the DfT wanted all bus stop clearways to operate 24/7 regardless of the frequency of bus services or hours of operation. Since the 'clearway' means no stopping, loading or parking some councils felt this was an unfair and excessive restriction - for example if the last bus uses the stop at 6pm then why shouldn't the frontage be able to park/load there after that time? Fortunately the DfT gave in and allowed bus stop clearway times to be set by the council to suit individual circumstances, but some councils still lazily set them to 24/7.

Jane_B

I can see why you wouldn't want it outside your home, however i don't think it will make as big a difference as you think.

What I would do in this situation is as a pp suggested, look into getting a dropped curb outside your property. If this is not feasible, I would get a value done on your home as is now. In writing. Then once the bus stop has moved get another, if there is a difference claim it from the council.

AdrianC

KidDynamo wrote: »

I wrote again to the planning committee to revise my stance to Neutral; but continuing to register my concerns about the parking and bus stop relocation.

So you officially said "I have no strong opinion either way on this application", then wittered about some things that were already dealt with elsewhere. Parking provision is part of the wider guidelines, and the bus stop location was outside of this application.

I kept an eye on the planning application online. Then one day a document appeared on the portal saying that the application had been approved. I had never been informed of the planning meeting.

Did it even go to the planning committee, or was it dealt with by a planning officer?

...but It does mean that visitors to my home will have to park a significant distance away

Woah, hold on. Earlier, you said...

...and I was concerned that the bus stop would be relocated in front of my house and it would be too close to the junction with a side road almost opposite my house.

If it's too close to the junction for buses to pause at for passengers to get on and off, then it's DEFINITELY too close to park.

so I think I'm justified in believing that it will have a negative impact on my house value.

That's not a material grounds for objecting to a planning application, even where it's the application itself which is directly affecting the value - which it isn't here.

Plus the issue with the proximity to the junction is a genuine concern.

And here we go again. It's either too close to the junction, or it isn't. TBH, you sound like even you know the others are really just a "I don't want people outside my house" whinge.

If the stop and shelter absolutely must be located there, can I at least get compensation for the loss of amenity and reduction in property value?

Nice simple question, nice simple answer. No.


Not that there will be any tangible affect, anyway.

KidDynamo

Well, I'm pleased to say that the issue was resolved to my satisfaction yesterday.

I met my local councillor and we first of all established exactly where the shelter was to be relocated. It turns out to be exactly 10m in my house's direction. It's not in front of my house, although it is partially in front of my neighbour's property (but not blocking his drive).

My principal concern wasn't the bus stop (or shelter) itself, but the marked yellow parking exclusion zone that precedes it. Apparently the official term for these markings is a "clearway", I learned yesterday. Moving the clearway 10m further in this direction would definitely affect my property and the neighbour on my other side. Obviously as we both have driveways and a dropped kerb leading to the drives, we would still be able to cross the clearway if it had been moved but there would no longer be available roadside parking in front of our houses.

However, the Highways officer in charge of this relocation, and the transport authority, have both confirmed that while the shelter will be moved, the clearway will stay exactly where it is (the clearway is almost twice the length of some others that I have seen in the same city, so that was another issue I was going to raise with them). Given my past experience of verbal assurances, I asked for confirmation in writing, which I now have. :beer:

westernpromise

That's good news and it also means that the gypsy encampment across the road from you that they're giving planning permission for won't be inconvenienced by buses stopping outside all the time.

D_M_E

Well done - seems you got a sensible conclusion.

Now you - and anyone else reading your saga - knows which council officer to approach about anything similar in the future.

I also note that you did not mention you already had a dropped kerb - or did I miss that? - which would have meant that the stop would not have been located near your property anyway.