RBS and Natwest-what's the deal?

Armorica

OceanSound wrote: »

Google is not always your friend.
I think the diagram you posted explains it much clearer than trying to figure it out using the FCA register or the companies house register (which are of course reliable sources.e.g. THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY came up as a previous name for Natwest Markets). What I'm saying is, I guess a picture does say a 1000 words sometimes.

Google is your friend if you use it wisely and understand how to judge the results, and what weight to given to different sources. (Such as wikipedia and lovemoney are less reliable than legal documents!)

FCA register isn't designed to show legal relationship - it deals at licence/permission level for each entity.

Companies house is a reliable source but you need to understand what to look for - some records will show shareholdings/majority shareholdings.

However, will be somewhat confusing to *everyone* at the moment, even proclaimed experts trying to look at legal records because of the shuffling that has happened to support structural reform (which has included name changes).

From a customer perspective, it's easiest to think about RBS, Natwest, Ulster and Coutts as 'sister banks' - separate legal entities and banking licences. But, the group won't pay you, for example, credit card and current account switching perks to move between brands/entities within their group. This is entirely at their discretion (and is very common).

NW Markets is not the same as NW. NatWest is "ring-fenced"; NW Markets is "non-ring-fenced". Only NW Markets can deal with certain more complex customers and activities.

OceanSound

Armorica wrote: »

Google is your friend if you use it wisely and understand how to judge the results, and what weight to given to different sources. (Such as wikipedia and lovemoney are less reliable than legal documents!)....

I know. Someone had said before 'more info was available via google', so I was saying it's not enough just to 'google it'.

To be fair, the person who said it (I think it was colsten) probably knew that anyway. I was saying it for the benefit of others. (which is probably the same reason you've given quite an extensive reply).

....wikipedia and lovemoney are less reliable than legal documents!

I think this part was already covered by eskbanker's post.

...This is entirely at their discretion (and is very common)."

Do you mind elaborating on how you find this very common. Perhaps cite examples. My understanding of 'very common' is when something happens in abundance.

I know HSBC and First Direct are part of the same group, however a customer could claim the switch incentive with both banks. From the top of my head, I seem to recall that banks/building societies like Yorkshire/clydesdale had switch incentives that could be claimed by one or the other bank only. I could be wrong on this!.

Note that the MSE web info on best bank accounts (with perks for switching - ongoing bills cashback) says this about Natwest bank:

Sister bank RBS also offers the same account. To get the £100 bonus you need to switch by Fri 6 July then pay in at least £1,500 and log in to online or mobile banking by Fri 24 Aug. The bonus will be paid by Fri 5 Oct.

Nothing mentioned about only being able to claim one of the incentives (if you've already held an account with Natwest during a certain time period). Perhaps we shouldn't rely on the (incomplete) info on that site because it's not a 'legal document'? Perhaps it's just sloppyness...anyway, you decide.

Armorica

It's very common I think the threads are confusing because multiple things are blurred together.

You can usually switch into both brands/legal entities - for current account switch, for example from two different accounts into two different accounts (one NW, one RBS). There wouldn't usually be a restriction on holding an account with say RBS and NW. But some entities may not allow you to hold two accounts with them.

But you can't switch between brands/entities within the same group and realistically expect to get a switching bonus. Banks aren't going to pay you to move between brands/entities they both own.

It can also simply be different by IT - i.e. how easily do they know if you already have an account with another legal entity/brand in the group if the group records aren't linked together.

The RBS/NW website are legal documents of sorts...what information is provided to customers would be a factor into FOS/court cases.

The same principles apply to credit card balance transfers. You can't usually transfer between cards of the same brand/entity and get a special offer intended for new customers...because they aren't gaining a new customer, just moving an existing one.

There is enough variety in the market, that you need to check the T&Cs / website offer text each time. This should always be clear. (You don't need to go looking into ownership records of banks etc.)

The main multi-brand groups are: HSBC/First Direct; Lloyds/Halifax/Bank of Scotland/MBNA; RBS/NW/Ulster/Coutts; Yorkshire/Clydesdale; HSBC/First Direct; Co-op/Smile. But there are others scattered around too - and things get sold from time to time.

And there isn't necessarily consistency between the rules for FSCS vs. current account switch vs. credit card balance transfers vs. timing of payments which may be quicker/cheaper/longer opening hours between brands/entities of the same group.

Edit: The LoveMoney site is wrong in at least two places. Bank of Ireland and Post Office aren't owned by the same thing. But the BoI banking licence is used to provide accounts under the Post Office brand. And NS&I isn't FSCS protected - it's government guaranteed.

eskbanker

OceanSound wrote: »

Note that the MSE web info on best bank accounts (with perks for switching - ongoing bills cashback) says this about Natwest bank:

Sister bank RBS also offers the same account. To get the £100 bonus you need to switch by Fri 6 July then pay in at least £1,500 and log in to online or mobile banking by Fri 24 Aug. The bonus will be paid by Fri 5 Oct.

Nothing mentioned about only being able to claim one of the incentives (if you've already held an account with Natwest during a certain time period). Perhaps we shouldn't rely on the (incomplete) info on that site because it's not a 'legal document'? Perhaps it's just sloppyness...anyway, you decide.

Absolutely, it's definitely not a good idea to rely on MSE articles if seeking to establish details of product offerings in the market - always refer to the Ts & Cs published by the providers!

That's not meant as a criticism, the site does a good job of summarising best buys and so on in its inimitable style, but couldn't ever hope to encapsulate all the fine detail that's written by the providers themselves. So, just treat it with caution and regard it as pointers to other sites where the definitive information will be shown.

OceanSound

Armorica wrote: »

It's very common ....

How so? ...on what basis are you concluding this? Which other banks have said if you've already made use of an offer from x bank (sister bank) between y date and z date, then you will not be eligible for this offer.

Like I said, for something to be labelled as 'common' it has to happen a lot. So I ask again, what examples can you give to support your view/opinion.

keef-WhatStandards

Has anyone got a link for the £125 switch to Natwest t&cs please? I started my switch a while back before it changed? to £100.

Armorica

OceanSound wrote: »

How so? ...on what basis are you concluding this? Which other banks have said if you've already made use of an offer from x bank (sister bank) between y date and z date, then you will not be eligible for this offer.

Like I said, for something to be labelled as 'common' it has to happen a lot. So I ask again, what examples can you give to support your view/opinion.

20 years of senior industry experience -_-

By common, I don't mean a lot of banks. Most banks in the UK are just a single brand/entity.

"It" common amongst the complex groups which I listed in my post - "it" being additional quirks/constraints about how the brands/entities interact in terms of transactions between the two, as well as parallel relationships with each entity/brand.

You're welcome to spend the time reading the T&Cs as I and others have advised.

stclair

keef-WhatStandards wrote: »

Has anyone got a link for the £125 switch to Natwest t&cs please? I started my switch a while back before it changed? to £100.

You might find what you need embedded in here:

https://personal.natwest.com/content/dam/natwest_com/nw-assets/pdfs/NWswitchingguide.pdf

Tallaght

They seem to be closing a lot of branches in semi-rural or rural areas.

kuratowski

OceanSound wrote: »

Is it the same as if you go out with one sister, it's not nice to go out with the other one anytime soon?

I believe your original question has been answered. I just wanted to say :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: