PCN @ High Point Village - Hayes & Harlington, London

KeithP

They cite The Oxford English Dictionary definition of 'to park' as 'to bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily'.

Throw that back at them and point out that you didn't leave the vehicle, temporarily or otherwise.

casper82

thanks for the suggestion, will do

Fruitcake

The judge in this case defines stopping versus parking. Jopson Vs Homeguard, case number 9GF0A9E

http://nebula.wsimg.com/f6d657adf7df70d27e1dd285688b5701?AccessKeyId=4CB8F2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

The relevant parts are 19 - 20.

19 The appellant's case could also be put in another way. The purported prohibition was upon parking, and it is possible to draw a real and sensible distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward or heavy items to be unloaded, and parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time.

20 Neither party was able to direct the court to any authority on the meaning of the word park. However, the Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following: To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space and;To leave in a suitable place until required. The concept of parking, as opposed to
stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes.


You should quote the judge's comments back to the scammers. and IAS assessor. This is the law speaking, not some bunch of unregulated scammers

casper82

Thank you Fruitcake,



That's perfect !

casper82

OK, so I submitted my "Appellant's Response", and the operator responded within 7 minutes, which is quite fast...


Any ideas as to what to repond with to these scammers, regarding their BS reply ?


Here is my "Appellant's Response" in green colour, and below is the operators, in red colour:


In answer to the points of Operator:
1: The appellant's case could also be put in another way. The purported prohibition was upon parking, and it is possible to draw a real and sensible distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward or heavy items to be unloaded, and parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following: To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space and;To leave in a suitable place until required. The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes.
2: The operator wrote: !!!8220;The operator does not accept that predatory tactics were used.!!!8221;
The appellant: How is it possible then, that the operator PCM issued a Parking Charge Notice, when the reality the appellant had not left the vehicle, and the timestamps in the photos provide a sum of total 21 seconds, including the car driving away ! As per operator!!!8217;s quotation: !!!8220;The Oxford English Dictionary defines !!!8220;to park!!!8221; as !!!8220;to bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily!!!8221;!!!8221;. The car HAD NOT been left temporarily by the appellant! How is this not a PREDATORY tactic as per the IPC Code of Practice @ section 14 Predatory Tactics:
!!!8220;14.1 You must not use predatory tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking changes. Such instances will be viewed as a serious instance of non-compliance and will be dealt with under the sanctions system as defined in schedule 2 of the Code.!!!8221;



Lot of BS from the operator:
The definition of the verb parked is to !!!8216;Bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road!!!8217;

The driver argues that as the vehicle remained attended he did not !!!8216;leave !!!8216;the vehicle unattended, it does not meet the definition. The driver is defining the verb !!!8216;to leave!!!8217; as to go away from. The operator would suggest the verb !!!8216;to leave!!!8217; as cause to be in a particular state or position or allow or cause to remain!!!8217;

Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (the legislation which governs the issue of parking charges) does not define what is meant by !!!8220;parked!!!8221;. There is however, an implied definition, whereby a charge may only be issued to a vehicle that is !!!8220;stationary!!!8221; (please refer to subset 4b) !!!8211; which can be defined as !!!8220;not moving!!!8221;. The vehicle was photographed to be !!!8216;not moving!!!8217; !!!8211; it remains in the same position over a period of time. This constitutes parking and as such the charge was issued, in accordance with the signage on site.

Further to this, the signage itself (that which forms the basis of the contract) defines what is meant by parking in the context of the terms where it clarifies !!!8220;this includes stopping, waiting & drop & collection!!!8221;.

Coupon-mad

The driver is defining the verb 'to leave' as to go away from. The operator would suggest the verb 'to leave' as cause to be in a particular state or position or allow or cause to remain'

Hahaha!!

Castle

Refer them to Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 with regards to terms which may have different meanings;-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/69/enacted

casper82

Hi,


just an FYI, I submitted response at IAS to the operator, referring to the above article.

The status of my case is currently "Awaiting Adjudication".


I will report back after IAS's decision.


Regards,

Umkomaas

I will report back after IAS's decision.

I'll save you the trouble. 'Appeal dismissed!' (with some disparaging remarks).

Hope I'm wrong, but it will be the first time this year ..... haha :rotfl:

casper82

Hi Umkomaas,


I am not giving it too much hope after reading experiences of others with IAS. If IAS declines my appeal, I will pay the fine to PCM in full... lol


...
...
...


no way I am paying, not even a freaking penny... unless an actuall court judge instructs me to...



Regards,