Lost IAS - Own Space, CPM not in my Lease

happyface182

Hello all

I am new, here but have been lurking these pages for a while. Sadly I didn't visit till after I'd already set the ball rolling with IAS.
I've read the newbie page and understand that having lost the IAS (due to not uploading my lease evidence) I'm basically back to square one and should potentially expect debt collector letters.

Some background on the PCN: I've lived in my apartment for just under 2 years, and never had an issue with parking despite parking all sorts of vehicles in the space that I'm contractually obliged to in my lease agreement. A visitor came to see me a couple of months back (ironically when the communal underground garage car park door was stuck open) and received a PCN for not displaying a permit. I said I parked it in the space (which I technically did) so that I could fight it for her.

I first appealed stating I've never had any issues, etc, I didn't know of UK CPM or what they were doing there, or that I was supposed to display a permit. I never received any permits when gaining access to my property, nor did the estate agent inform me of them. They do have signs however, but I've never bothered reading them as I assumed they're for tenants who rent their apartments whereas I lease mine. I failed to see how any regulations other than in my lease agreement would apply to me when I technically have 'my own space'.

I have checked my lease over and over and there is no mention of UK CPM or permit displaying.

This appeal failed at which point I went to the IAS stating all of the above, It came back this morning as appeal dismissed on the grounds that I didn't supply evidence of my lease.
There are a few reasons for this, the first and most obvious being that my lease is over 2" thick and I'm sure if I only uploaded partial pages etc, they would argue it was 'incomplete'. Also, my lease is quite sensitive data and I'm not sure why I should have to upload it to them in order to defend my own space etc.

Might anyone be able to advise what I should expect next? next steps etc.?
Am I right in thinking wait for the court case?

There is no way I'm paying these cowboys for parking in my own space when I was never supplied a permit, and already have abided by all my contractual obligations set out by my leaseholder.
If anything I believe I should be compensated by UK CPM for having to spend so much time and stress defending my own space.

Furthermore, isn't trying to 'piggy-back' another contract on to someone's existing lease contract a crime in itself? it should be

Any help / advice will be much appreciated
Best Regards

safarmuk

Basically, yes, you are now waiting to see if this goes to the SCC and then you defend yourself. Essentially, CPM are saying that you owe them a debt for breach of contract and you are saying you don't because you have a pre-existing contract to use your parking space (with the Freeholder) that trumps CPMs attempted contract. This dispute needs to be settled and the SCC is where this is done - very annoying and time consuming for you.

However, there is another avenue you need to pursue and that is with the Management Company (who would have brought CPM in) and ultimately the Freeholder who may well be breaching your lease by having a 3rd party trying to impose a new contract on you without you agreeing to it.

So, first, who is the Management Agent (the company you pay your maintenance / service charge to) and who is the Freeholder (the company you pay ground rent to). The names are important because depending on who they are good known contacts may be available for you to use.

Nevertheless your next job is to contact the Management Agent and tell them that:
a) You want this ticket cancelled in writing by CPM
b) You want your allocated space excluded from the scheme (assuming you have no need for it?)

Likely they will try to fob you off, don't stand for it and put the pressure on them to do something. As and when you get a response come back here and we can advise "stronger" language to use. Ultimately you might try something like "Hairray" did in his thread when he sent LBCs to all parties which resulted in the PCN getting cancelled quick smart.

happyface182

That's awesome, many thanks safarmuk - many thanks. My management company is now Clarion Housing, formerly Affinity Sutton (a very recent change)

I will contact them and report the findings back here.

I can't imagine it being any different than them fobbing me off from my previous experience / dealings with them.

Best Regards

peter_the_piper

When you do win make sure you let all the other lessee's know so that they can fight CPM when the blighters try it on with them.

happyface182

Will do peter_the_pi, many thanks

I've spoke with the Housing company who believe there may have been an oversight when the property was handed over.
Apparently due to parking issues early on in the development of the housing area, UK CPM were brought in and unless there were sufficient objections, UK CPM would be granted permission to manage the spaces.
The oversight is when no permits etc or information was passed on to me as the new leaseholder.

I advised them of the situation and that SCC will likely be the next step, so the housing office for my area will be calling me back
It still bewilders me how I can have a contract with Clarion, and an 'implied contract with CPM' just by parking there.
Doesn't seem right to me, especially when CPM aren't referenced in my Lease.

happyface182

Will do peter_the_pi, many thanks

I've spoke with the Housing company who believe there may have been an oversight when the property was handed over.
Apparently due to parking issues early on in the development of the housing area, UK CPM were brought in and unless there were sufficient objections, UK CPM would be granted permission to manage the spaces.
The oversight is when no permits etc or information was passed on to me as the new leaseholder.

I advised them of the situation and that SCC will likely be the next step, so the housing office for my area will be calling me back
It still bewilders me how I can have a contract with Clarion, and an 'implied contract with CPM' just by parking there.
Doesn't seem right to me, especially when CPM aren't referenced in my Lease.

Johno100

happyface182 wrote: »

That's awesome, many thanks safarmuk - many thanks. My management company is now Clarion Housing, formerly Affinity Sutton (a very recent change)

Not that recent a change according to Wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_Sutton

On 30 November 2016, Affinity Sutton merged with Circle Housing to form Clarion Housing Group and become the UK's largest housing association.

What's the betting nobody has updated the agreement with CPM and it is still in the name of Affinity?

happyface182

Wow, I only just started getting info from Clarion within the last 6 months, maybe they merged back then but had to wait for contracts under the Affinity Sutton name to expire?

safarmuk

I can't imagine it being any different than them fobbing me off from my previous experience / dealings with them.

Just don't stand for it. You need to be very firm with MAs and if they don't do what is right escalate to the people that employ them - the Freeholder (who is the person you actually hold a contract with - being the lease).

At the end of the day a contract is a contract and if the Freeholder is breaking the contract (via something their appointed agent for whom they are responsible for) they are in breach of said lease which is not a trivial matter. Turning it the other way if you were to breach the lease the worst case scenario (but generally unlikely) if you did not put the breach right would be forfeiture. You uphold your side of the lease so you expect the Freeholder to uphold theirs.

Apparently due to parking issues early on in the development of the housing area, UK CPM were brought in and unless there were sufficient objections, UK CPM would be granted permission to manage the spaces.

You can tell the MA that you no longer want CPM to "manage" your space if you want. This is essentially you opting out your allocated parking space from the scheme.

It still bewilders me how I can have a contract with Clarion, and an 'implied contract with CPM' just by parking there.
Doesn't seem right to me, especially when CPM aren't referenced in my Lease.

Generally it isn't and most MAs are deluded in their view of what a PPC will do to the estate and the residents themselves.

Ralph-y

oh ...

and watch / read the below to give you an idea as to what you are up against


https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.


Ralph:cool:

happyface182

So I was told to send the guy an email if I didn't get my phone call from the housing officer by 5pm.

Of course I never got my phone call, I typed out the email and hit send only to have the mail returned by the mail server. He'd given me the wrong address....awesome.

Looks like another phone call tomorrow then