Orange cover saying I lost phone "carelessly" please help!!

rudeboyroy

On the 24th of April I upgraded my mobile to a spanking new 3g handset and was really happy untill on the way to work and packing my car 3 days later I lost my handset, I didn't think this would be a problem after spending two hours looking for it (must have dropped it on the way to packing my car) because I have orange insurance which is charged at £5 a month.

After 1 hour on the phone speaking to the most ignorant employee of Orange I was told I lost my phone "carelessly" and would have to pay £300 for a replacement, after arguing about what is the point of lost insurance if it dosn't cover you when you lose your phone I was told that I couldn't speak to anyone more supperior and the only thing I could do is replace at £315(£15 for extra for sim).

As i am desperate to use my phone for work I reluctantly agreed to purchase the new handset, a subsequent phone call to my household insurance company reasures me that they will honour the claim but with a £75 excess.

I am not very happy about having to claim on my household insurance when I took necessary insurance with Orange and don't want to face higher household premiums because of it.

Please could someone tell me how to deal with this matter and get Orange to honour there comitment, I was never told at the time of taking the insurance out that in some cases they would try to wriggle out of replacing handsets, if they had I would not have gone with Orange in the first place.

This is my first post as a new member and love the site, so please Help!help!Help! Moneysavers.

BexTech

This type of response is not unusual from these type of insurances. Most will wriggle out of paying for the reason given. Holiday insurance is the same, especially if you loose an item when on a beach or by a swimming pool.

I would never bother personally with these types of insurance, simply because there are too many clauses, I either add such items to my household insurance if they are of high value, as household insurance are usually better at payout, though with mobile phones I just get cheap ones and don't bother with insurance as for me buying new is cheaper than paying for insurance they might not pay out or you have to pay an excess on.

As you have now made a claim with your household insurance, there is little if anything else you can do, other than put it down to experience that these mobile phone insurances aren't worth the money, and to be more careful in the future.

margaret_3

If I were you I would put my complaint in writing and say that you expect a new phone by return as you cannot do without it. I wouldn't mention the phone call at all.
I would say how glad you are that you took their advice in buying their insurance!!!!!!!
Put down the relevant information----policy number and your landline number ----and remember to keep the letter brief.
Margaret

BexTech

If the OP has already instructed her household insurer and then makes a claim to the mobile insurance they could find out about the other claim, and will consider this as fraud. If the OP hasn't yet instructed the household insurer, then yes I'd go along with what has been said.

Just need to remember that these mobile insurances aren't worth the money.

dauphin

I agree with you to the extent that all losses must involve a degree of carelessness. The insurance cover requires you to take "reasonable" care of your phone and of course that is a matter of interpretation. (Actually there is probably a similar provision in your household insurance policy).
Have a look at the T&C's of Orange Care in the Orange user guide (starts at page 106 in my copy). Clause 6.8 mentions they may appoint loss adjusters to investigate where they suspect lack of reasonable care - sounds like in your case they have not even done that. Clause 13 deals with complaints: step 1, phone Orange; step 2 write to Product Insurance address in Darlington; step 3 write to HSBC Insurance Brokers who arrange the cover; step 4 invoke independent dispute resolution scheme.
I would start from step 1 again, speak to somebody different and present the facts of your case in the best light, then proceed with the other steps if you get no satisfaction and think you have a case.
You should note that clause 3.1 requires notification of loss to the Police at latest within 24 hours, so they could hit you with that one if you didn't do this. You could argue that it wouldn't have made any difference in the circumstances.

PinkPig

I've never had mobile insurance because I've known that household insurance covers it - the £75 excess is no more than you'd pay in 18 months getting the phone insurance. Do you still have the terms and conditions of your Orange insurance? If they say that you aren't covered in case of losing the phone "carelessly", and they have a good definition of "carelessness" then I doubt you have much chance. Always a good idea to write them a letter though!

Wickedkitten

here's the full text if it helps

3 COVER FOR LOST, STOLEN AND DAMAGED PHONES
Your phone which must be in your possession or in the possession of an authorised user is insured worldwide subject to the terms and conditions of the insurance policy (see clause 6.14 in respect of conditions outside the United Kingdom). If your phone (or parts thereof) is lost, stolen or damaged you will be entitled to a replacement or repair "free of charge" subject to payment of the administration fee as detailed in clause 9.6, subject to compliance with all the following terms and conditions of the policy. For your information an authorised user is the Orange registered customer, other users officially notified to Orange by the customer and authorised by Orange, the registered customer's spouse/partner, members of his/her immediate family, all of whom would normally reside at the registered customer's address and employees of the registered customer who use the phone with permission of the customer.
3.1 Loss, theft or malicious damage claims must be reported to the Police immediately but in any event within 24 hours of discovery of the occurrence. In respect of claims arising outside the United Kingdom please refer to Clause 6.14.
3.2 Your claim must be reported to Orange as soon as possible but in any event not more than 24 hours after you discover the loss, theft or damage. In respect of claims arising outside the United Kingdom please refer to Clause 6.14. To make a claim you must provide the following:
3.2.1 the crime reference number in respect of theft or malicious damage claims or the lost property reference number if the phone has been lost;
3.2.2 full details of how the loss, theft or damage occurred; and
3.2.3 any other information and evidence as may reasonably be requested by Orange regarding the cause of loss or damage.
3.3 Orange will arrange repair or replacement on behalf of the insurers.
3.4 Lost, stolen or damaged antennas will be repaired/replaced, where appropriate, free of charge once only.
3.5 You or any authorised user of the phone must at all times act with due care in looking after the phone and take all reasonable precautions to safeguard it against loss, theft or damage.

3 COVER FOR LOST, STOLEN AND DAMAGED PHONES
Your phone which must be in your possession or in the possession of an authorised user is insured worldwide subject to the terms and conditions of the insurance policy (see clause 6.14 in respect of conditions outside the United Kingdom). If your phone (or parts thereof) is lost, stolen or damaged you will be entitled to a replacement or repair "free of charge" subject to payment of the administration fee as detailed in clause 9.6, subject to compliance with all the following terms and conditions of the policy. For your information an authorised user is the Orange registered customer, other users officially notified to Orange by the customer and authorised by Orange, the registered customer's spouse/partner, members of his/her immediate family, all of whom would normally reside at the registered customer's address and employees of the registered customer who use the phone with permission of the customer.
3.1 Loss, theft or malicious damage claims must be reported to the Police immediately but in any event within 24 hours of discovery of the occurrence. In respect of claims arising outside the United Kingdom please refer to Clause 6.14.
3.2 Your claim must be reported to Orange as soon as possible but in any event not more than 24 hours after you discover the loss, theft or damage. In respect of claims arising outside the United Kingdom please refer to Clause 6.14. To make a claim you must provide the following:
3.2.1 the crime reference number in respect of theft or malicious damage claims or the lost property reference number if the phone has been lost;
3.2.2 full details of how the loss, theft or damage occurred; and
3.2.3 any other information and evidence as may reasonably be requested by Orange regarding the cause of loss or damage.
3.3 Orange will arrange repair or replacement on behalf of the insurers.
3.4 Lost, stolen or damaged antennas will be repaired/replaced, where appropriate, free of charge once only.
3.5 You or any authorised user of the phone must at all times act with due care in looking after the phone and take all reasonable precautions to safeguard it against loss, theft or damage.

did you phone the police to report it missing?

nujjy

Also, try to give Orange another call and see if you get put through to a different person. That always seems to work with a lot of companies and demand to speak to a supervisor as well.

Altarf

Orange will be relying on clause 3.5. If you can't remember where you left it, was reasonable care being taken with the phone.

As an aside, I was reading an article recently that a certain police force had received such a large number of false reports of muggings where a phone was stolen, that they were giving people reporting such a crime a warning leaflet advising that if one has not really taken place then they will have action taken against them. Certain people had discovered that whilst the insurance company would refuse to honour claims for lost or water damaged phones, they would pay out for muggings.

Fatboy_NSS

I'm a bit uneasy with the wording of section 3.5, as this is so called loss theft or damage insurance. However by definition if an item is lost then you haven't been acting with due care in looking after it! This clause potentially gives Orange the opportunity to refuse to pay for any lost phones, which makes the title of the insurance misleading (they can't call it loss insurance if they don't have to pay on loss claims). I think a complaint is due!

Incidentally, there's nothing wrong with claiming on both insurance policies for the same loss, as long as you either repay the money claimed from your house insurance when orange pays out, or only claim £75 from orange (the amount of the excess you paid under the other policy).

avi_3

Hi - I have had orange insurance for more than 3 years and have claimed thrice on it, once for losing my phone whilst on a vacation abroad (made a complaint there), second time i broke the screen when it dropped of from my shirt whilst playing snookers and third time dropped it accidentally whilst leaning forward, each time i had to argue witht them for atleast an hour. I feel lucky having read this thread, but i know a few people who have been refused a replacement, think this insurance is waste of time, cos the only reason they seem to give a replacement is when someone actually assaults you and then have the phone taken of you.

I think you should fight it out with orange, cos its absolutely insane on their part not to give you a replacement, cos the only you can actually guarentee that you are not going to lose the phone is if you put in a safe in a bank. I Think a mobile phone means a MOBILE PHONE and it is natural to keep these in your pocket, so if you lose it from the pocket without your knowledge, then you are not fully responsible for it.

When you call up orange ask them what do they mean by taking reasonable precaution, cos i think if you had the phone in your pocket, it menas you have taken precaution and left the mobile visible to anyone for it to be stolen. Try speaking to a supervisor cos they know what they are tlaking and are more experienced.

Let them know that these things happen and that is why you had the the insurance, not to give them free money.

Hope this helps