PCN - help wanted please

duffyscouse

I have prepared witness statements but unsure If it is sufficient to destroy theirs - They claim I left the premises - I have a similar case to hand that was thrown out of court in a similar incident that I can refer to I can also prove I was a customer and that they do not specify which order I can visit the retail outlets -How do I get assistance please ?

Coupon-mad

You are getting assistance, we are here out of the goodness of our hearts in our own time. This is it, we are helping you.

Why not look at the thread by Lop5 which shows how to go through a WS and pick out every error in the statement and the evidence? Look Lop5 up in the members list and click on his thread.

Yours should be flippin' easy to demolish!

Where's their evidence of the driver leaving the site - nowhere surely! You certainly don't help them by admitting it; this is their case to prove.

duffyscouse

of course I didnt admit anything - and thanks
They claim I left the premises and came back with a takeaway - which is pictured in my hand and then in the passenger seat - it is unclear that it is a takeaway just a carrier bag !
As it happens there is a restaurant next door to their premises and that parking is allowed for one hour and is for customers only - They do state that I did make a purchase from their premises though AFTER I had returned - my car was parked for no longer than 26 minutes - the till receipt of the purchase has correct date but wrong time stamp as the till time is NOT accurate - I have a voice recording at a later date where I question the till time of another purchase on a different day that clearly involves the shop owner and I discussing the time stamp and it is wrong

duffyscouse

Are you suggesting I claim I did not leave the premises ? Their PO could also have informed me IF he says he observed me leaving that I was about to breach 'contract' of the signs written in small print

Coupon-mad

You say you do not believe you did leave the premises and they haven't shown you any evidence to help you to recollect the day. If there is a photo with you holding a bag, say that yes, you are holding a bag!

But there's no evidence to show that this meant you 'left the site', or what is in this bag, or who among those in the car may have go a takeaway, but the fact remains you believe you remained within the site and can prove it with the receipt, etc.

Do the signs delineate exactly what constitutes 'the site?' Any site boundary map in evidence? If not, point that out to the Judge, and of course that the signs were unreadable due to small print & height.

Their PO could also have informed me IF he says he observed me leaving that I was about to breach 'contract' of the signs written in small print

Do not go there...it sounds like you were admitting you did, AND the VCS v Ibbotson toothbrush case is so very old and pre-Beavis that I wouldn't use it as it focuses on mitigation of loss (and the Beavis case killed arguments re there needing to be a loss).

duffyscouse

Sounds ideal thanks - their paperwork does indeed state that I went into the shop - proving I was a customer. The signs do NOT show their boundary and of course it was over a year ago how could I remember the chain of events fully, I do not believe I did leave the premises. Cheers

Coupon-mad

A passenger or someone you were meeting there could have handed you that bag...or maybe you were using it as a shopping bag...! They have zero evidence by the sounds of it, as usual - it's hearsay.

But mainly, what constitutes 'the site boundary' and where's their evidence of you leaving the site - and WHY has their operative not turned up to the hearing, meaning YOU are the only true witness!

The evidence is for THEM to prove, you just find the holes in it and convince the Judge you are the honest witness here, who was a patron of the site and no evidence has been fielded to prove otherwise, it's all hearsay from a person incentivised to issue PCNs who isn't even there...

If your Judge seems stern, demanding to know where you went, you can honestly say you can't possibly know because this is so long ago, you've been there more than once and as far as you are concerned have never abused the car park or left the site.

You don't have to say exactly where you went but (in prep for the hearing) rehearse on front of the mirror - or a relative/friend playing the role of Judge - how to say this without looking evasive.

You must come across as having the moral high ground here. This is winnable.

duffyscouse

There IS no clear boundary - I DID go into the shop and make a purchase, I did NOT leave the premises !
Cheers for the support guys/gals

duffyscouse

Am I permitted to email my evidence to them and the court ?

Coupon-mad

To VCS, technically yes - but there's a VCS thread I hope you've read among your research (as it was posted on today) where VCS told someone by reply email that they would not accept service by email even though by phone they'd said they would!

Why not post VCS' version 1st class on Tuesday (is that in time?) with a Certificate of Posting from your PO Counter - it's free. Keep that little receipt and put that proof in your court bundle in case VCS pretend non-service!

DO NOT EVER USE RECORDED OR SPECIAL DELIVERY TO A PPC AS IT IS HANDING THEM THE CHOICE NOT TO SIGN, OR LETS THEM DELAY DELIVERY - GIVING YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO NOT WANT!

As for your local court - do not try email, yukky yuk in terms of how it all looks for the Judge if the staff bother to print it all out, and chances are they won't.

Search the forum for Ring Binder contents page (saves us typing this every time). Make it lovely and easy for the Judge to follow, and make one for yourself too.