Staving off a potential family dispute

Sea_Shell

How many years older are you to your sister? I can see at 18 she may not have understand the full implications of what you and dad were doing. Now the penny's dropped. I doubt it was ever your dad's intention to disinherit his daughter, which is effectively what's happening.

flammable999

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

Well legally it's yours. She's never had any claim to ownership over any part of it.

It's entirely up to you what you do with it and what she gets. Nobody can legally enforce anything. If you want to give her anything when your parents die that is your decision.

Your only potential issue might be, if she lives there now, getting her out if your parents die. Does she live there?

Of course none of this will stave off a potential family dispute.

No she does not live there. She has her own place with her own mortgage right now.

flammable999

AnotherJoe wrote: »

I dont think your dad could have "transferred" the mortgage to you.
You must have taken a new mortgage out?

Who lives in this house now? Just parents? Or you and sister? Or one of you?
And when you say father wants it to be joint owners "again" were you initially a part owner before he sold you his share?

The second part of this is what do you want to happen? Do you want to give your sister 50% of the gifted equity at the time of ten years ago, or a proportion of that, or none?

Sorry, transfered was maybe wrong word. It was a new mortgage with a gifted deposit. It is me and the parents now, oh and my wife. I was never a part owner..

Ideally, I want to give her nothing, but to keep the peace, I would give her 50% of the gifted equity at the time ten years ago

flammable999

Sea_Shell wrote: »

How many years older are you to your sister? I can see at 18 she may not have understand the full implications of what you and dad were doing. Now the penny's dropped. I doubt it was ever your dad's intention to disinherit his daughter, which is effectively what's happening.

I am five years younger but no one did anything maliciously. My dad gave her the chance to be put on the mortgage along with myself ten years ago. She said no. What can you do with that?!

AdrianC

flammable999 wrote: »

Sorry, transfered was maybe wrong word. It was a new mortgage with a gifted deposit.

...and the reason your sister wasn't involved at the time would most likely have been that she could not have got a mortgage.

Ideally, I want to give her nothing, but to keep the peace, I would give her 50% of the gifted equity at the time ten years ago

That seems utterly appropriate, since that's what you were given by your parents. Everything above that has been part of your 100% ownership of the property.

Cakeguts

This is actually nothing to do with you. This is between your sister and your father. Your father was the person who made the decision as to what to do with his house to make his life easier. Your sister would have been aware of your father's wishes at the time that he made this decision with you about his future interest in the house so really if she wants a dispute it is with your father not you.

Linton

flammable999 wrote: »

I have a potential situation on my hands and was wondering if anyone had any advise as I get lost in a minefield of potential documents and pitfalls.

Ten years ago, I took on the mortgage from my father via him gifting the deposit to me, i.e whatever equity was still in the property. They signed paperwork saying they had no further interest in the property. However, my sister who was over 18 at the time, did not sign anything. She just verbally said she wanted nothing to do with it.

Fast forward ten years and my sister is suddenly miffed that my parents did not provide her with any security. Now my father wants ownership to be joint again, so should they die, their share goes to her. The thing is, even if we did that, they are in no position to pay their share of the mortgage. In theory, I don't mind carrying on to pay the mortgage but should something happen to my father, then I don't see why my sister should get any more than 50% of the equity my father my originally put in prior to gifting the property to me. I don't see why she should get 50% of what the house was valued at when I took it on, let alone what it is worth now. We are all scared that because my sister did not sign anything ten years ago, she has a case to get me turfed out.

There is still a mortgage on the property. Anyone got an ideas if there is a way to accomodate all of the above and at same time ensure she only gets 50% of my fathers original equity?

As others have said the house is 100% yours so anything you do is out of the goodness of your heart and a desire to retain family harmony.

Your father only gave you the equity in the house and the gifted deposit. The rest was covered by the loan that you took on.

It seems reasonable to me that she should get no more than 50% of the original equity+gifted deposit increased proportionately to the increase in value of the house. That would make her share of what your father actually gave you equal to yours. Your mortgage interest and repayment costs are hopefully covered by the increase in value of the rest. If she wants more she would need to cover some of your mortgage costs.

Of course it could be argued that your father living there rent free represents another payment by you. However if the original equity was relatively low and your mortgage costs are more than covered when the house is sold you wont actually have lost out.

The possible problem is whether that split can be protected legally at this stage or would simply be a promise made by you.

AnotherJoe

flammable999 wrote: »

Sorry, transfered was maybe wrong word. It was a new mortgage with a gifted deposit. It is me and the parents now, oh and my wife. I was never a part owner..

Ideally, I want to give her nothing, but to keep the peace, I would give her 50% of the gifted equity at the time ten years ago

Then I would tell your father that since you've been paying the mortgage for the past ten years, the gain in house price growth should be yours, but you will make a payment of 50% of the equity value when it was transferred as thats "only fair" to correct his oversight. And to play devils advocate maybe your sister was in no position at that time to take on a mortgage for a house she either didnt live in then or wasn't going to be living in.

That may or may not "keep the peace" though? Suppose it doesnt? An alternative would be, you could work out what your total mortgage payments were for the past ten years, and then suggest if that if she pays you half that amount, you'll pay her half the current equity. Would that be acceptable to you or parents or her?

This is unfortunately showing the truth of the old adage "no good deed goes unpunished"

Mojisola

Linton wrote: »

Your father only gave you the equity in the house and the gifted deposit.

Of course it could be argued that your father living there rent free represents another payment by you.

Your sister obviously hasn't taken this into account.

If your father had put aside the money that he would have paid in mortgage or rent payments over the last ten years, he would have capital to leave to his daughter.

Aylesbury_Duck

flammable999 wrote: »

I am five years younger but no one did anything maliciously. My dad gave her the chance to be put on the mortgage along with myself ten years ago. She said no. What can you do with that?!

Surely you mean you are five years older?, or did this all happen when you were 13?

I've nothing to add to the solid advice given above but there is another relationship to consider here. You seem resigned to a future difficult relationship with your sister, perhaps even inevitable estrangement, but how firm are your father's wishes now? As others have said, he has created this problem himself and any dispute should really be between him and your sister, but will you refusing to bend to your sister's belated demands ruin your relationship with your father? Forgive my bluntness, but if he is elderly and dies in the next few years, will you look back and hate yourself for not allowing him to reverse the situation?

What I'm getting at is that whist is appears that you are on solid ground and can dictate what, if any concession you make towards your sister, you have to live with the consequences to your relationship with your father and your own conscience. What is that worth?