*URGENT HELP* Appealing Parking Charge taken to court

GiaPetite

Ahh thank you, I'm not sure how this works yet. Just a quick question though, Keith told me to just resubmit my defence i've already sent at the previous stage however I have read this:

Witness Statement can expand upon the points made in your original Defence, and must start with the following "I, Joe Bloggs, of 23 Acacia Avenue, Anytown, AN1 2BC, am the Defendant in this matter, and will say as follows". You should attach to your Witness Statement any evidence to support your assertions, eg photos of signage, etc. Optionally, you may also want to include a Skeleton Argument to flesh out the legal points, or you could include those as part of your Witness Statement.[/B][/B]

Parties exchange Witness Statements - these are factual, they are not for legal argument. You would deal here with things like the fact that x people are insured to drive the car (and exhibit the insurance), that the parking event was so long ago nobody can remember who was driving and the PPC is unable to provide any evidence of who the driver was. You might also deal with the lack of evidence provided by the PPC to back up its claim, breaches of the ATA Code of Practice, and if this is an inadequate signage case you'd also deal with the facts of that. You might also complain in your WS about how the PPC has not followed proper procedures and still hasn't evidenced things like landowner contract etc, but stick to the facts. Exhibit documents to which you refer in the WS. If you have other documents you want to rely on (that aren't exhibited to the WS) you also exchange these at this stage. The forum refers to this as the "Defendant's bundle".

So do I use pictures and compare the signs to the Beavis case and include a letter from the resident who owned the flat the driver was visiting and parking in a visitor space?

Sorry for the questions. I'm overloaded with info and don't know where to start.

nosferatu1001

GiaPetite - NO Keith did NOT tell you to do that

Yo uwere told very precisely what to do, and they did NOT tell you to just resubmit your defence. They told you the exact opposite in fact

You DO know where to start - newbies thread, post 2, and EVERY SINGLE CEL THREAD EVER. Theyre so far all the same. You submit defence, submit DQ, submit WS and then CEL discontinue.

KeithP

GiaPetite wrote: »

Keith told me to just resubmit my defence i've already sent at the previous stage...

Excuse me... where exactly did I say that?

If you are going to ask questions it is very important that you read and understand the answers.

Computersaysno

Troll at work!!!!!!!!!!


Love it.




Not sure if master troll or complete idiot!!

Coupon-mad

So do I use pictures and compare the signs to the Beavis case and include a letter from the resident who owned the flat the driver was visiting and parking in a visitor space?

I just added a new link to a Civil Enforcement WS example (written by bargepole) in the NEWBIES thread that shows how to set it out, and there are already lots of examples there.

Just use one as your base and change the facts, and think about your evidence to adduce. Surely the resident has their tenancy or lease agreement you can take a copy of, to show that they have primacy of contract and (hopefully) the right for visitors to use visitor spaces.

Your thread is now so long, no-one will have time to look back now.

So you need to write a WS that says exactly what happened and why there was no contract with CEL, and tell us what evidence you have, even if you are repeating earlier posts that we've long since forgotten.

You will even have to remind us - in this case is the driver admitted to CEL, or not?

GiaPetite

Hi,

So shall I send my previous Defence as the Witness statement but expand on it by adding pictures etc? The person does not have the tenancy or lease agreement anymore as they sold up and moved. I just have a letter they wrote to say they lived there. The driver hasn't been admitted.

bargepole

GiaPetite wrote: »

Hi,
So shall I send my previous Defence as the Witness statement but expand on it by adding pictures etc?

No.

Which bit of this advice in post #63 did you not understand:

"You were told very precisely what to do, and they did NOT tell you to just resubmit your defence. They told you the exact opposite in fact"

GiaPetite

Sorry where is that link Coupon-Mad? I'm struggling to find it.

KeithP

GiaPetite wrote: »

Sorry where is that link Coupon-Mad? I'm struggling to find it.

As CM said, it's in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

GiaPetite

This?

(a) a copy of the Beavis case sign as a comparison to show how awful the small print sign was in yours case
(b) photos proving the scarce and illegible small print signs in your case, a view showing the lack of entrance signs, etc.
(c) a video of how it looks from a car is good evidence! You can get a passenger to hold a camera or phone and record the lack of signs seen to the point of parking.
(d) a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA - there is a link to it in post #1 above. The Judge will NOT have this to hand & is unlikely to be familiar with it. This is only applicable if you are defending as keeper.
(e) a copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability' if defending as keeper.
(f) a copy of your lease or tenancy agreement if this is an 'own space' or 'block of flats' dispute where YOU have primacy of contract.
(g) the case transcripts that support your argument (get them from the Parking Prankster's case law page), e.g. if arguing prohibitive 'forbidding parking' signs which offer no contract a driver can accept, you need PCM v Bull; if arguing that this is a residential space where the tenant/leaseholder has already been granted (impliedly or explicitly) the right to park or unload you need Jopson v Home Guard (a persuasive Appeal case heard by a Senior Circuit Judge) and PACE v Mr N, etc.
(h) the IPC or BPA Code of practice, where it supports your case (e.g. the grace periods section 13 of the CoP in a BPA few minutes' 'overstay' claim).
(i) a Pay & Display ticket if you have it in such a case, e.g. if arguing it was displayed. DO NOT ARGUE 'no loss'!

I have no idea what to include. I can't include i) as it was not a Pay and Display. I don't know if I can include h) I overstayed (according to them you can't overstay 90 minutes even though it doesn't say that on the signage). I'm not sure what point g) is and although I could use point f) the person the driver was visiting doesn't have a copy of their agreement anymore and I asked the landowners to send me a copy and they haven't. I also don't understand c) or d). I haven't got the original anpr camera parking charge Civil Enforcement sent but I don't think it asked who the driver was. Also they never sent a Letter before claim.