**BEWARE REVERSE CHARGE TEXTS**Serious Fraud is occurring right now!!

peterbaker

Interestingly, it was Vodafone that chose to advise me that they don't make any money from these £1.50 texts ... maybe they are talking about net profit after they've finished dealing with clued-up MSE'ers

Interestingly again perhaps, it was Vodafone that advised me that not opening the texts and deleting them saved the charge; and furthermore, it was Vodafone that advised me that there was some kind of automatic delayed delivery of this type of "Reverse Charge Text" until after your balance had been adjusted so it would at least match the charge of the text if opened ....

Sounds like the networks are well embroiled with this wolves-at-the-door type "theft" .... as wantmemoney succinctly puts it :eek:

mateypeeps

proplusplus wrote: »

Just so you know...

you don't have to 'open' the texts messages to be charged. you are charged as soon as you receive them. Or more-over as soon as you have credit and the text passes through the network's charging system.

the T&C's are generally advertised on the site somewhere, or you are referred to a site at some stage.

Your acceptance of these terms is through sending an SMS to the 5-digit code.

your contract is with Vodafone. Vodafone have a contract with 3rd party SMS companies who in turn provide you with the 'service' of games.

When you buy a can of Cola from sainsbury's, you have entered into a contract with Sainsbury's for the sale of the product. However, as the manufacturer of the item, you have an asymilated contract with the company. which is why you can sue them if the prodcut is defective.

In much the same way, the T&C's of your contract will allow for the provision of the agreements with 3rd part SMS companies.

When you spoek to a manager, he did not 'see your point of view'. He merely understood it would be more efficient to keep you sweet by offering to return your £10. This keeps you happy, keeps him and you off the phone, and probably saves time in dealing with your issue. Time costs money. If it had been £30,000 and you had used the service but was unhappy... he would have directed you to the company to make a complaint, and would not have just written off your bill.

If you read your contract, you will see something to the effect of the agreement i mention above.

It would be ludicrous to believe that you are not bound by the T&Cs, because this is a very lucrative business for both network and service providers.


On the other hand, if it is a scam (you never signed up to it, never were shown any T&Cs etc..) the issue would still need to be resolved (generally) with the service provider (ie, the 5-digit short-code provider). As although Vodafone may bill you, they are billing you based on services supposedly delivered to you. but in most cases, if the amount is low, companies will tend to refund and appologise to keep you happy.

proplusplus

Along the lines of "never shown T&C's", http://mobile-bestshopping.com/page_from/5/menu/free+text.htm advertises http://free.zingtones.tv/free.aspx?cid=94&ag=4&target={Keyword}&type={ifsearch:search}{ifcontent:content}&site={placement} which asks you to enter your and the target (mugs?) mobile phones, NO TERMS are shown.

I searched with Google and found this article here, thank goodness I am a sceptic and used to detecting fraudulent offers, I thought this was likely to be a reverse charge scam.

Thanks for the info.

By the way, I found the scam sites using a Google search, as SPONSORED ADS, perhaps someone should complain to GOOGLE for aiding and abetting these scum, against the Terms that Google have, of NOT BEING A SCAM when Adwords are booked by advertisers???

cazy_baby

this has happened to me with the same number, i was sent three messages taking £5 credit of mine. i have had this happen so many times i delete these messages without reading them, i got these three messages yesterday and deleted without reading to find i was STILL charged for these messages, i am also on vodafone!

Sid_Harper

It doesn't help many of the people here, but if you are on T-mobile, there is a charge to account bar that you can activate to stop receipt of chargeable texts, I believe.

AUSSY_2

reehsetin wrote: »

this happens so often, at least you had some contact with the company
some people just randomly start getting chargeable texts
if you text back to the number 'STOP' literally just 'STOP' they have to cease sending you any more messages

I had to do the same and finally they stopped sending me texts and taking my credit from my phone .
Also beware MOBILE LOCATE .co.uk , you sign up for free 30day trial ,and if you dont read the very small print they take off your card an anual subscription fee 180 pounds approx ,try getting it back , a call centre in India ,no chance .

taffy056

I had 5 from the short code 85099, they charged £1.50 a time, I phoned Vodafone and demanded my money back, they refused but they have changed my mobile number for free, so end of problem, but I am now chasing the company below for a refund, as I did not request any service from them.

Pocketworld
PO Box 58004
London
W10 6YF
0870 389 9003
http://www.pocketworld.co.uk/

Their shortcode provider is

MX Telecom
http://www.mxtelecom.com/uk/
020 8987 8855

And have also spoken to ictis below in relation to the complaint.

0800 500 2121
http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/

taffy056

I had 5 from the short code 85099, they charged £1.50 a time, I phoned Vodafone and demanded my money back, they refused but they have changed my mobile number for free, so end of problem, but I am now chasing the company below for a refund, as I did not request any service from them.

Pocketworld
PO Box 58004
London
W10 6YF
0870 389 9003
http://www.pocketworld.co.uk/

Their shortcode provider is

MX Telecom
http://www.mxtelecom.com/uk/
020 8987 8855

And have also spoken to ictis below in relation to the complaint.

0800 500 2121
http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/

MarkyMarkD

mateypeeps wrote: »

Along the lines of "never shown T&C's", http://mobile-bestshopping.com/page_from/5/menu/free+text.htm advertises http://free.zingtones.tv/free.aspx?cid=94&ag=4&target={Keyword}&type={ifsearch:search}{ifcontent:content}&site={placement} which asks you to enter your and the target (mugs?) mobile phones, NO TERMS are shown.

The link you provided is the wrong page on that site, but you meant: http://mobile-bestshopping.com/page_from/5/to/6/menu/free_games.htm which is just as bad.

There is actually a "Ts & Cs" button on the page it links through to, but it is partially hidden. It's at the bottom left if you want to play "spot the Ts & Cs".

And those Ts & Cs read, inter alia:

# First Download is Free.
# This is a subscription service, it will cost £3 per week until you send STOP to 85066.
# Download up to 5 tones or graphix per week with our Mobile package.
# You will be sent 2 x £1.50 reverse billed messages per week.

If you want to complain about this sort of advertising, you need to complain about the source page (not the page with the Ts & Cs on) to the ASA, as they won't investigate advertisements on a dodgy company's own site. Although Pointer (the website owner) are Italian they are still bound by the ASA as they are advertising to UK customers and promoting a UK-run and targeted service.

Tigletto

Zingtones are owned by a company called Red Circle and they can be contacted on 00353 12311224 (Ireland) or [EMAIL="help@red-circle.com"]help@red-circle.com[/EMAIL]

When my son's (aged 10 years old) mobile account was debited each week by £3.00 (£1.50 per text received) and I knew that he hadn't "opted in" to receive such messages I contacted Red Circle and they sent the following email:

---

Your son’s number has been blocked from our database effectively canceling all subscriptions.

The short code that messages are being received from is 85066. This is a subscription short code.

However, upon reviewing your son’s records, I cannot see an obvious ‘opt in’ from his number.

During the download process the person ordering the content has to enter their number to collect their order from the WAP site. However, occasionally if a person ordering content inputs their number into the database incorrectly, the number that ends up receiving the service messages belongs to somebody else. From reviewing your son’s records it would appear that this is what happened here.

You are entitled to a full refund of all charges incurred.

As the refund will be in the form of a cheque, please reply with the name and address of the person to whom the cheque is to be made payable to.

There are two pending messages on this subscription which I regret to inform you I cannot stop from being delivered.

If you do not wish for your son to receive these messages, I recommend that you do not top up his phone for eleven days. The messages will expire after this time frame.

---

The email above was received from them today (27/05/08) - I'll let this forum know how long it takes to receive a cheque!

Tig

Intasun32

Tigletto wrote: »

There are two pending messages on this subscription which I regret to inform you I cannot stop from being delivered.

If you do not wish for your son to receive these messages, I recommend that you do not top up his phone for eleven days. The messages will expire after this time frame.

Hi Tigletto,

I found it very interesting that you have been told that the premium rate texts will expire after 11 days. From my own experience I have found that once the texts have been sent and are in your networks system they will remain there until your handset is activated and the cost deducted from the phone credit.

I hope that you will advise us as to the outcome of the last two texts.

I found that the only way to rid ourself of these thieves was to run down the credit and destroy the simcard, replacing it with a new sim card and new number. Sometimes this action can cause lots of inconvenience but it is really worth it.

Good luck.

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