How to manage imbalance in husband/wife pension?

TBagpuss

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

Its still a marital asset if they were to divorce though. Tenants in common will only come in to play when the first one dies.

That isn't quite correct. Being tenants in common is most important where one owner dies, but if they divorce it is a circumstance which a court is entitled to take into account, and might well result in a different split of assets than if everything else were the same but the property was owned as joint tenants. Of course, it would depend on the over all situation and on when and under what circumstances the declaration of trust was made.

TBagpuss

In terms of what is fair, given that your husband is not willing to buy in to the house to free up some of your equity, and that you don't appear to want to divorce him, I'd suggest that you look at it in terms of need, rather than trying t come up with a formula.

e.g.

How much is needed for the normal day to day costs of the household? (i.e. household bills, insurance, groceries etc)
How much is the total income (ypurs and his) coming into the household?

What is the difference between the two?

I'd suggest that you aim to come up with an arrangement which covers all the outgoings and leaves you both with some spending money.
If he feels he should have more available to him, then one option would be to agree a fixed amount for each of you to have as 'personal spensing money' and agree that he get s to keep any surplus.

e.g.
total joint income = £2,500
household bills & groceries (ideally including payments into a pension for you, and money going into joint savings for things like holidays) £1,800
Agreed 'personal spending money' £150 each

Balance left - £400 reatained by him.

Alternatively, particualrly if he is pushing to keep your finances completely separate then treat him like a lodger or housemate.

Household bills divided by 2 - you each pay your half.
Rent. You own 83% of the property, so he owes you rent for the 33% of the property which you own but which he is using, so work out what market rent would be for the house and charge him 33% of that.

Consider how household chores are split. Do you share these equally or do you do more? If so, work out how many hours work you each do and start charging him for surplus. i.e. if he does 3 hours work and you do 5 hours work, charge him for 1 hour (half the difference).

However, the real question to discuss with him is whether he is seriously proposing that you should be left struggling while he lives it up? If he feels that that is fair, then the alternative would be for you to propose that the house is sold, and that the two of you buy a smaller property on a 50/50 basis, and you invest your extra into a pension or other investments to boost your income.

Debra0001

Thanks for all the comments. The 82% of house is mine to hopefully pass down to my children of first marriage/or use somehow to top up my pension. My husband will not inherit and not used in any divorce if I don't touch his pension (as in prenup) My wariness is based on my first husband leaving me and two young children to go abroad with zero support and zero equity. I struggled for 20 years to pay my mortgage so want to protect my investment for my children in case anything happened.
Husband is just thinking house is 'mine' and he pays half of everything else so penny doesn't drop that he is benefiting from living there. He is willing to move if I want to downsize.

I'm sure he'll treat me to a holiday or night out which is lovely but I need to work out if I'm fare to ask he to take more of the bills load than 50% as an example?

We're a modern couple I know so traditionalists may find us odd but personally I'm proud to be a self suffient women and would hate to have to hope he helps more. I'd prefer to discuss things and change our 50/50.

Looks like I'll rent out our big house to get some more income but capital gains tax and income tax makes it not a great solution.

Any more thoughts on what's fair to put to him?

Thanhs

Mojisola

Debra0001 wrote: »

The 82% of house is mine to hopefully pass down to my children of first marriage/or use somehow to top up my pension.

My husband will not inherit

Do you have a water-tight will that covers this?

Will he have a life-interest in the family home?

If not, would he make on claim on your estate because you haven't provided well enough for him?

Debra0001

Yes hopefully

Debra0001

He would be able to buy a flat as I'd provide some amount in will to top up his share. I want house sold and hubby move as Otherwise my kids might be 60/70 before they inheritate as he's a bit younger (and our family don't seem to last long I'm afraid). He's ok with all of that. If he dies first I inherit. Works for us as a blended family.

Tabbytabitha

happyandcontented wrote: »

I wouldn't say that necessarily follows, my OH is a top earner but one who has little or no interest in money or pensions, he simply followed company advice to accrue his large pension pot. He isn't bad with money per se, just disinterested.

Having little or no interest in money is rather different from being bad with it, don't you think?

happyandcontented

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

Having little or no interest in money is rather different from being bad with it, don't you think?

Yes, but my point alluded to you saying "he can't be that bad with money"... because he has a good pension.

If you have a good job with an FS scheme or a good employer with a decent personal pension you need to have little input to the end result. So, having such a large pension does not preclude you from being either good or bad with money.

Equally, the OP not having a much of a personal pension possibly arises from her not being in work through bringing up children rather than her being bad with money.

My general point is that it is often irrelevant how good or bad you are with money circumstance can dictate how much you end up with.

ognum

Debra0001 wrote: »

Thanks for all the comments. The 82% of house is mine to hopefully pass down to my children of first marriage/or use somehow to top up my pension. My husband will not inherit and not used in any divorce if I don't touch his pension (as in prenup) My wariness is based on my first husband leaving me and two young children to go abroad with zero support and zero equity. I struggled for 20 North Avenue years to pay my mortgage so want to protect my investment for my children in case anything happened.
Husband is just thinking house is 'mine' and he pays half of everything else so penny doesn't drop that he is benefiting from living there. He is willing to move if I want to downsize.

I'm sure he'll treat me to a holiday or night out which is lovely but I need to work out if I'm fare to ask he to take more of the bills load than 50% as an example?

We're a modern couple I know so traditionalists may find us odd but personally I'm proud to be a self suffient women and would hate to have to hope he helps more. I'd prefer to discuss things and change our 50/50.

Looks like I'll rent out our big house to get some more income but capital gains tax and income tax makes it not a great solution.

Any more thoughts on what's fair to put to him?

Thanhs

I am interested that the way you have structured your finances is in your mind ‘modern,. To me between you all you have done is built a relationship based on the idea that is will fail! Is that modern or insecure?

You are co dependants,he needs you for a roof, you apparently need him to help maintain your house and for the odd night out. Is that really modern?

It seems to me you would be equals without you prenup, he has the pension you have a house if you split both you would probably be about equal.

Debra0001

I've brought up children and changed jobs so have 4 small pensions but as retiring early I won't get as much as would have if could work till 67. Employer hasn't increased pension as if worked till end. Nothing can do as discretionary. I can't work as disabled in All joints. Plus other issues. Will get worse.

OH been with private sector for 30 years top final salary pension when retire.